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Post by EwellHolmes on Jan 16, 2020 18:30:04 GMT
The major U.S. companies chose cheap labor (short term profits) over making capital investments. It wasn't that the U.S. couldn't have remained on top, it's just that they chose to seek the aforementioned short term profits by offshoring.
Ok thanks for clarifying. That's the same mistake that British [mis-]management, too often encouraged by politicians, has been making for most of the last ~170 years.  Not to get too political, but Bain Capital is a great example of this; liquidating functional companies for short term profit instead of utilizing them for long term gain. The 1980s really marked a sea change in corporate culture, as that's when the whole "cut costs as much as possible" mindset came in. Instead of making long term investments, like industrial machinery, why not just lay off the whole American work force and move to China where we can use slave labor? Nowadays, instead of making capital investments, many companies are dumping China for Southeast Asia... |
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Post by insect on Jan 16, 2020 20:14:22 GMT
I like to see a pod where president Johnson does not escalate a land war in Vietnam and concentrates more on great society this may be a.s.b.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 16, 2020 20:19:55 GMT
I like to see a pod where president Johnson does not escalate a land war in Vietnam and concentrates more on great society this may be a.s.b. It could happen, i guess, it is not a ASB scenario. |
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 16, 2020 21:27:12 GMT
I like to see a pod where president Johnson does not escalate a land war in Vietnam and concentrates more on great society this may be a.s.b. When you say he'd focus more on his Great Society programs, what do you have in mind (i.e. expanding the War on Poverty)? |
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Post by insect on Jan 17, 2020 5:01:59 GMT
Yes
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2020 10:13:19 GMT
Well that kind of thread, while it is allowed on AH.com is not something i approve here, i do not like What Ifs involving the Holocaust never happening, there are subjects i approve and those i want to leave alone, for the fact it was such a horrible event in history i feel we must respect it and leave these kinds of What Ifs in peace. The fact you posted here is good but a what if Nazi Germany With No Holocaust is still going see a lot of people dying, especially in the East if Germany goes true with the invasion of the Soviet Union like they did in OTL. |
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Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2020 11:50:55 GMT
Ok thanks for clarifying. That's the same mistake that British [mis-]management, too often encouraged by politicians, has been making for most of the last ~170 years. Not to get too political, but Bain Capital is a great example of this; liquidating functional companies for short term profit instead of utilizing them for long term gain. The 1980s really marked a sea change in corporate culture, as that's when the whole "cut costs as much as possible" mindset came in. Instead of making long term investments, like industrial machinery, why not just lay off the whole American work force and move to China where we can use slave labor? Nowadays, instead of making capital investments, many companies are dumping China for Southeast Asia...
There's far too many. In the 1970's in Britain such behaviour was being criticised heavily, including by the Tory leadership at the time. Then Thatcher came in and it became pretty much standard practice. Unfortunately like a lot of her policies their long survived her fall from power. With Reagan coming to power the following year in the US they basically followed the same trend. It doesn't help that banks in the UK are still doing such things as finding businesses and pressurising them into loan policies that bring the banks a lot of money but often are fatal for the firms. |
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 17, 2020 14:16:39 GMT
Well that kind of thread, while it is allowed on AH.com is not something i approve here, i do not like What Ifs involving the Holocaust never happening, there are subjects i approve and those i want to leave alone, for the fact it was such a horrible event in history i feel we must respect it and leave these kinds of What Ifs in peace. The fact you posted here is good but a what if Nazi Germany With No Holocaust is still going see a lot of people dying, especially in the East if Germany goes true with the invasion of the Soviet Union like they did in OTL. Understood, Lordroel. I take it you want me to avoid proposing no-Holocaust scenarios in the future (maybe the same would apply to the likes of no Holodomor as well)? |
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2020 14:47:24 GMT
Well that kind of thread, while it is allowed on AH.com is not something i approve here, i do not like What Ifs involving the Holocaust never happening, there are subjects i approve and those i want to leave alone, for the fact it was such a horrible event in history i feel we must respect it and leave these kinds of What Ifs in peace. The fact you posted here is good but a what if Nazi Germany With No Holocaust is still going see a lot of people dying, especially in the East if Germany goes true with the invasion of the Soviet Union like they did in OTL. Understood, Lordroel. I take it you want me to avoid proposing no-Holocaust scenarios in the future (maybe the same would apply to the likes of no Holodomor as well)? Talking about Holocaust is not a problem, but there are some things i want to respect due the horrible things that happened during those years, the Holodomor is also one of these things, there are a lot of other things we can discuses on the forum without needing to post things like this. However if you post Hitler gets killed in WW I and thus as a result no Holocaust is a different matter then compared to Nazis take over and no Holocaust happens as the Nazis where and never will be people who respected some races of people and had the full intend to see them wipe out to the full of their ability. |
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 17, 2020 15:44:16 GMT
Understood, Lordroel. I take it you want me to avoid proposing no-Holocaust scenarios in the future (maybe the same would apply to the likes of no Holodomor as well)? Talking about Holocaust is not a problem, but there are some things i want to respect due the horrible things that happened during those years, the Holodomor is also one of these things, there are a lot of other things we can discuses on the forum without needing to post things like this. However if you post Hitler gets killed in WW I and thus as a result no Holocaust is a different matter then compared to Nazis take over and no Holocaust happens as the Nazis where and never will be people who respected some races of people and had the full intend to see them wipe out to the full of their ability. Gotcha. I’ll handle the subject with more care from now on; in no way did I intend to be irreverent or disrespectful, as I hope you know. |
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2020 15:53:28 GMT
Talking about Holocaust is not a problem, but there are some things i want to respect due the horrible things that happened during those years, the Holodomor is also one of these things, there are a lot of other things we can discuses on the forum without needing to post things like this. However if you post Hitler gets killed in WW I and thus as a result no Holocaust is a different matter then compared to Nazis take over and no Holocaust happens as the Nazis where and never will be people who respected some races of people and had the full intend to see them wipe out to the full of their ability. Gotcha. I’ll handle the subject with more care from now on; in no way did I intend to be irreverent or disrespectful, as I hope you know. No problem, it just there are some things we must respect, this and post about young children are at this moment the only things so far i do not want to have post ore threads about, but if there are more, i will make sure to notify you ore any other member on the forum. |
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 17, 2020 22:02:27 GMT
Gotcha. I’ll handle the subject with more care from now on; in no way did I intend to be irreverent or disrespectful, as I hope you know. No problem, it just there are some things we must respect, this and post about young children are at this moment the only things so far i do not want to have post ore threads about, but if there are more, i will make sure to notify you ore any other member on the forum. I hear that. And I'll keep those points in mind going forwards.
Returning to the original topic of discussion, though, how about '~2020 Technology By ~2000'?
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2020 22:13:29 GMT
No problem, it just there are some things we must respect, this and post about young children are at this moment the only things so far i do not want to have post ore threads about, but if there are more, i will make sure to notify you ore any other member on the forum. I hear that. And I'll keep those points in mind going forwards. Returning to the original topic of discussion, though, how about '~2020 Technology By ~2000'?
Like smartphones ans such, that would be interesting, but i do not see how that by 2000 would be posabile. |
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 17, 2020 22:24:34 GMT
I hear that. And I'll keep those points in mind going forwards. Returning to the original topic of discussion, though, how about '~2020 Technology By ~2000'?
Like smartphones ans such, that would be interesting, but i do not see how that by 2000 would be posabile. Yeah, that's true. In that case, maybe the PoD would have to date back to nearly the start of the 20th Century. Though I've often heard and seen the talking point about the World Wars advancing science and technology considerably beyond what we would've achieved in peacetime, I doubt that it's that simple. Millions of otherwise-potential scientists and innovators might've been made into casualties, while funding that could've gone to R&D ventures outside of wartime usage was instead spent on weapons, field munitions and training recruits for military service. Not to mention the battered economies and mass-desolation of productive infrastructure via bombing runs and ethnic cleansing and such that left Eurasia in ruins up until the last several decades. For that reason, I wonder if butterflying conflicts on the sheer scale of the World Wars, though that may set back military advancements like better tanks or nuclear weapons, would go some way to vastly promoting peacetime innovation that results in roughly 2020s-level (civilian) technology by the turn of the century.
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Post by stevep on Jan 18, 2020 11:03:40 GMT
Like smartphones ans such, that would be interesting, but i do not see how that by 2000 would be posabile. Yeah, that's true. In that case, maybe the PoD would have to date back to nearly the start of the 20th Century. Though I've often heard and seen the talking point about the World Wars advancing science and technology considerably beyond what we would've achieved in peacetime, I doubt that it's that simple. Millions of otherwise-potential scientists and innovators might've been made into casualties, while funding that could've gone to R&D ventures outside of wartime usage was instead spent on weapons, field munitions and training recruits for military service. Not to mention the battered economies and mass-desolation of productive infrastructure via bombing runs and ethnic cleansing and such that left Eurasia in ruins up until the last several decades. For that reason, I wonder if butterflying conflicts on the sheer scale of the World Wars, though that may set back military advancements like better tanks or nuclear weapons, would go some way to vastly promoting peacetime innovation that results in roughly 2020s-level (civilian) technology by the turn of the century.
Would agree with you. There are definite advances of technology in wartime. The dramatic changes in aircraft between 1914-18 is a classic example of this. Also sometimes important social changes, although they can be negative as well as negative. However while there may be sometimes major impacts on other areas of technology such progress is often fairly narrow in focus. Also as you say the huge damage of the two world wars especially in terms of human deaths and suffering, the material destruction and the diversion of so many resources into war related production almost certainly dwarf that.
Possibly a slightly different/earlier WWI that is over within a few months because of the lack of the Haber process means that the Central Powers are forces to come to terms within a few months. If a later clash is avoided then Europe at least is going to be a lot more stable, especially if Russia is able to become less autocratic rather than descending into communism.
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