James G
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Post by James G on Nov 6, 2019 23:22:40 GMT
Well. That's a lot of progress in just one day. I can't think of many equivalent offensives that produced the same result in just one day (maybe on the Eastern Front in WW2). At the most, its 80 odd miles. That is pretty far but the fighting was first against an opponent on the move unready for combat that early and then inside the Netherlands against dismounts. It is still a lot but doable. Once they ran into opposition, then the advances stalled. Supply units will now need to catch up fast or those out ahead are in the sticky stuff! This is reminding some people of World War II; good update and waiting for more, BTW... Hitler couldn't get across the Channel though! The advances are pretty much comparable to what the Soviets did in Manchuria in 1945. Soften up and unprepared opponent first, knock them off balance and then charge into their rear. At any time, the advance can be stopped, but before then the enemy just sees tanks pouring forward and troops being dropped off by helicopters everywhere. Thank you. More tomorrow, where NATO will be having a better time though still caught out elsewhere at times.
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amir
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Post by amir on Nov 7, 2019 2:30:16 GMT
Coevorden was the III US Corps main ammunition supply point with prestocks is for all III US Corps POMCUS sets plus 2AD FWD. Thats a thirty day supply of ammunition lost. No real way to make that up short of sealift.
I wonder what’s happening in the US Army/USAF nuclear custody units? Most of the North German garrison locations for lance/luftwaffe Pershing/artillery shells/adm have been overrun, and it looks like the pace of advance may have captured field sites as well. I don’t recall if Buchel has been overrun, but Volkel is definitely threatened. I’m assuming the USAF is evacuating their munitions from their own bases, my question is for the dual key munitions.
Also, with Heilbronn/Swabisch Gmünd overrun, the US Pershing’s have lost their garrison area and the Wuscheim GLCMs have the enemy close as well- they can shift dispersal areas west, but risk loss of the base infrastructure.
At what point will NATO (not France) decide they are at the point of “use or lose” with their theatre deterrent?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 7, 2019 15:36:11 GMT
James Have the Dutch considered breaching the dykes? Would cause huge damage and probably considerable loss of life but might stall the Soviet attacks a bit.[Also probably less lives being lost than allowing the invasion to continue with the way the Soviets are treating civilians. However sounds like it might already be too late for that.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 7, 2019 15:45:51 GMT
James Have the Dutch considered breaching the dykes? Would cause huge damage and probably considerable loss of life but might stall the Soviet attacks a bit.[Also probably less lives being lost than allowing the invasion to continue with the way the Soviets are treating civilians. However sounds like it might already be too late for that. Steve
We did not do it with the Germans came visiting in 1940, but so far i do not know of any Dutch plans to breach the Dykes if the Soviets come rolling in.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 7, 2019 15:50:06 GMT
James Have the Dutch considered breaching the dykes? Would cause huge damage and probably considerable loss of life but might stall the Soviet attacks a bit.[Also probably less lives being lost than allowing the invasion to continue with the way the Soviets are treating civilians. However sounds like it might already be too late for that. Steve
We did not do it with the Germans came visiting in 1940, but so far i do not know of any Dutch plans to breach the Dykes if the Soviets come rolling in.
Good point. I would expect it would be far worse than when the Belgians flooded their coastal regions in 1914 to stop the German advance so probably not an option that would be practical but just a thought that occurred to me.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 7, 2019 16:09:26 GMT
We did not do it with the Germans came visiting in 1940, but so far i do not know of any Dutch plans to breach the Dykes if the Soviets come rolling in. Good point. I would expect it would be far worse than when the Belgians flooded their coastal regions in 1914 to stop the German advance so probably not an option that would be practical but just a thought that occurred to me.
Well i am trying to find out more information, might takes some time, but as far as i know, there where no plans to blow up the dykes as that would effect hundreds of thousands of people.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 7, 2019 20:58:07 GMT
Coevorden was the III US Corps main ammunition supply point with prestocks is for all III US Corps POMCUS sets plus 2AD FWD. Thats a thirty day supply of ammunition lost. No real way to make that up short of sealift. I wonder what’s happening in the US Army/USAF nuclear custody units? Most of the North German garrison locations for lance/luftwaffe Pershing/artillery shells/adm have been overrun, and it looks like the pace of advance may have captured field sites as well. I don’t recall if Buchel has been overrun, but Volkel is definitely threatened. I’m assuming the USAF is evacuating their munitions from their own bases, my question is for the dual key munitions. Also, with Heilbronn/Swabisch Gmünd overrun, the US Pershing’s have lost their garrison area and the Wuscheim GLCMs have the enemy close as well- they can shift dispersal areas west, but risk loss of the base infrastructure. At what point will NATO (not France) decide they are at the point of “use or lose” with their theatre deterrent? I know that Coevorden was a big place but the (limited) info I have says that there were more ammo depots elsewhere too: Kevelaer was supposedly a big one. Regardless, the loss of that one, ad the divisional sets nearby, will be a massive blow. I guess ammo can be airlifted in... but that would be a massive undertaking and using jets assigned to other missions. NATO missile units were ordered west but many garrisons are gone. Buchel is unoccupied and, yes, places like Volkel are close to the frontlines. I'm not too up to speed on how thinsg would go but I would imagine a massed evac of anything nuclear related overriding anything else. Bits and pieces, people too, are likely to be in Soviet hands by now. They can keep withdrawing backwards but there will come a point when it gets to that stage. James Have the Dutch considered breaching the dykes? Would cause huge damage and probably considerable loss of life but might stall the Soviet attacks a bit.[Also probably less lives being lost than allowing the invasion to continue with the way the Soviets are treating civilians. However sounds like it might already be too late for that.
Steve
Not something I planned for. Blowing the dykes would be hard too. The Dutch weren't excepting what happened. What parts of their country they have left they could do that though as lordroel says, I don't think it would be done. Well i am trying to find out more information, might takes some time, but as far as i know, there where no plans to blow up the dykes as that would effect hundreds of thousands of people. I can't see it. Flooding ground and killing people doesn't seem the thing to be done when NATO will always want to retake what it lost: floodwater would negatively effect counteroffensives too.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 7, 2019 20:59:12 GMT
131 – Bridges over the Rhine
NATO had taken its eye of the ball when it came to the threat to a sudden Soviet descent into the Netherlands. There would be many who afterwards would say ‘I told you so’… though few could remember them saying that at the time. The country wasn’t lost though and those that had taken large parts of it were at the end of a long supply line. The fight for the territory of that NATO member was far from over, especially as water barriers gave NATO a temporary reprieve when it came to the Third Shock Army stalling at them. Not enough attention had been on the threatening situation there because it was regarded as a hypothetical. That morning, after permission for the use of nuclear weapons had been denied, where everyone’s eyes were focused upon was the Rhineland. The Soviets had come across overnight and in the early hours, establishing themselves multiple bridgeheads and continuing their attacks. Bonn had fallen and there were Soviet tank divisions pushing up against the Eifel region (with Belgium and also the Dutch Limburg on the other side) as well as making attacks northwards in the direction of Cologne while simultaneously driving south towards Koblenz. The First Guards Tank Army hadn’t been allowed to pause after achieving such a feat as getting over the Rhine: make three attacks in different directions, the commander was told. NATO gave them no let up as they tried to drive them back over the river. Elements of four NATO corps commands were active in the area. The French I Corps – near beaten – was here and they were joined by the French III Corps (which came into the Rhineland from Belgium & Luxembourg), the Belgian I Corps (moving out of their own country) and the US III Corps (arriving by air to link up with pre-positioned equipment). Further Soviet forces arrived too with the fourth formation of the First Guards Tank Army showing up – the 20th Tank Division had come from Poland – and the Poles too had sent paratroopers from their 6th Airborne Brigade. There were a lot of opposing troops, plus a lot of armour, active in a small area. The fighting which they undertook through the day saw civilians once again caught up in a war zone.
Down the course of the Rhine linking the two sides of the river which the First Guards Tank Army controlled, their engineers had thrown over it dozens upon dozens of temporary bridges. As they put them into operation, NATO was soon to knock them out of action. Sending reinforcements over the river was only one element of the huge undertaking to allow crossings over the Rhine: the Soviets needed to supply their troops on the other side. NATO used aircraft, distant artillery firing at range and also tactical ballistic missiles: Lances were fired by the armies of several countries. The use of such weapons here on their own soil (all conventionally armed but capable of fielding a nuclear one) showed the desperation of NATO to knock out those bridges over the Rhine. Those Lances were fired from over in Belgium, arching through the sky to slam home. Soviet SAMs engaged attacking aircraft and their counter-battery fire went after NATO heavy guns. Stopping the missile strikes proved almost impossible though. They were facing the same issue as NATO was when in defence facing such weapons: there was little they could do to stop them. As the bridges were up, to be then put down, the war raged on the western side of the river. The French I Corps held the approaches to Koblenz and entering the fight on their flank was now their fellow Frenchman with the III Corps. The 2nd Armored & 8th Infantry Divisions rushed forwards, reaching the Rhine soon enough. They moved along the course of the river though slower now that they were in battle and face-to-face with Soviet tankers who gave them quite the fight. The Belgians came through the Eifel. Their I Corps had their 1st Infantry Division as well as an extra combat brigade (it was in peacetime assigned to the 16th Armored Division, which was fighting far away to the east) and they fought another one of those Soviet tank divisions. The Belgians couldn’t get down to the Rhine like the French did but achieved a lot up in the high ground nearby. Around Monchengladbach, POMCUS sites here had seen the first American troops flown out on REFORGER missions arrive. The 2nd Armored Division had lost its forward-deployed brigade out on the North German Plain but what formed up here in the Rhineland was still a strong two-brigade force. They were joined too by those national guardsmen from Tennessee’s 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment (who took the stored equipment for the 3rd Cav’). Each unit faced chemical attacks as they got ready but carried on outfitting for war here in West Germany. They were supposed to be the lead unit of the US III Corps with the 1st Cavalry Division and the 49th Armored Division joining them afterwards. The Americans had believed that their first fight would be in Westphalia, not here in the Rhineland. They saw action near Cologne and then the crossroads town of Kurpen too when the Soviet tank division they faced tried to get around their flank. The 278th Cav’ did exceptionally well in combat. They’d spent months training in California at Fort Irwin and put all that they’d learnt to the test. The 25th Tank Division was destroyed by the Americans. Polish paratroopers were met afterwards on the outskirts of Bonn. The intention was to retake it but then there came the issue of what was happening behind them.
The Third Shock Army assigned division, the 47th Guards Tank, which didn’t go into the Netherlands but instead crossed the Rhine at Rees & Wesel, was suddenly threatening not just the Southern Netherlands but the US III Corps rear. Fighting on the Maas with the British and the Dutch was the Soviet’s main priority but they were engaging West German reservists rather close to the Kevelaer ammunition depot that was an outlying part of the Monchengladbach POMCUS set-up. The 2nd Armored Division’s 1st Brigade was redirected there with haste, turning about on its heels and passing north-south through the horde of civilian refugees moving east-west from out of the Ruhr. Kevelaer had been emptied of some of its many stored munitions but much of that was still there. If it had been lost, the III Corps wouldn’t have been able to fight for any longer than today because it had ammunition for the corps’ artillery as well as the Tennessee cavalry unit too. American tanks and mechanised infantry got there in time and fought the Soviets elsewhere in that very northern part of the Rhineland near to the Netherlands. There was contact made with the French 10th Armored Division (temporary detached from its parent corps) to join with the NATO fight on the Maas north of Venlo as a full link up with allies was achieved. Things were looking up. In the late evening, the US Army took the Wesel crossing site that the Soviets had made. The bridges here were rode across by American scouts who didn’t stray too far back over the eastern side but did what damage they could when encountering the enemy. Celebrations about the success achieved here was soon spoilt by the terrible news for the III Corps which came out of the Northern Netherlands. The 49th Armored Division wouldn’t be fighting with them because it had been lost before it could form up. For the Soviets, as the day ended, the First Guards Tank Army was in a lot of trouble. They received their reinforcements but it wasn’t going to be enough. More men and tanks were needed here or NATO was going to liberate at that had been taken on the western side of the Rhine.
Away to the east, the British had been holding the Upper Weser since the war’s first day. The 3rd Armoured Division, joined by a West German panzergrenadier brigade, had stopped Soviet and East German troops with the Twentieth Guards Army and then held them in-place. The immediate flanks hadn’t been turned for those on the Weser here deep in the German countryside. They had a forward position which could be used as a bridgehead for NATO counteroffensives to the north of the south. It had been to join the British on their left flank that the Dutch I Corps had been heading before it was lost while there were those forward Belgians to the right. Disaster struck the Dutch just after the British faced a three-division attack with another one going after the Belgians too. Ogarkov had had his First Western Front commander relieve the general in-charge of the Twentieth Guards Army and put someone in command who wouldn’t make a mess of things as the marshal believed that general had. Eager to impress, the new army commander threw a massed offensive forward using Twentieth Guards Army who hadn’t yet to see combat. Bridges were thrown over the Weser. The British sought to contain them but the Soviets kept on coming. Tearing into the Belgians was the 90th Guards Tank Division too. With what happened in the Netherlands too, this whole forward position became untenable: no one could be sure that the First Guards Tank Army would be pushed back as far it was too. A withdrawal was ordered. It would be a fighting withdrawal, but NATO forces here would still fall back. The British, Belgians and West Germans all started to pull back in the direction of the Ruhr. The intention was to make the Soviets pay for every inch of ground that they took. It was a big boast to make and impossible to achieve yet it was still tried as the withdrawal got going.
Down near Frankfurt, the Americans had no intention of pulling back. The US V Corps undertook an offensive today instead off withdrawing like their allies were elsewhere. The 8th Infantry Division had another go at the Soviet’s 20th Guards Motor Rifle Division on the north-facing left while the 57th Guards Motor Rifle Division was attacked by the US Army’s 3rd Armored Division to the east. The Blackhorse Cav’ – beaten up but still capable – was in the thick of each fight. Out of all of NATO’s pre-war deployed forces, the V Corps was still in the best shape. They’d only withdrawn previously when they had to and wouldn’t do so any longer. The Eighth Guards Army had what was left of the rest of its remaining strength elsewhere and these units of theirs here were on their own. The 20th Guards Division had a bad morning; the 57th Guards Division had an even worse afternoon. The Americans ripped apart anyone they could get at and got into rear areas. They ran into a mass of fire from anti-tank guns (deployed for the blocking roles) and also drew a lot of air attention but they won the fights they took part in. However, it was all for nothing in a strategic sense. Events elsewhere in West Germany demanded that reinforcements and external support was directed elsewhere. Those two Soviet divisions were already effectively written off by higher command as offensive forces and, while expected to do better in defence than they did, weren’t completely wiped out. The V Corps REFORGER-assigned reinforcements deploying from the United States were the 4th Infantry Division plus two independent brigades (the 194th Armored & 197th Infantry). POMCUS sites for all of them were across in the southern part of the Rhineland, near to the Saar: many US Air Force bases were over there too. The 197th Infantry Brigade was in the Gulf, leading to the 30th Infantry Brigade of national guardsmen from North Carolina taking over their mission, but none of the brigades nor that division was yet to fully form up. Others, assigned elsewhere, had been given higher priority in trans-Atlantic flights. There were soldiers breaking out the gear but the Pirmasens area was another big chemical target for the Soviets just like the airbases (Hahn, Ramstein, Sembach, Spangdahlem and Zweibrucken) nearby were too. In a couple more days, the V Corps reinforcements would be ready to start seeing action: just not yet.
There were POMCUS sites around Mannheim as well. These were for the 1st Infantry Division. Their forward brigade was Bavaria-based but the rest of the division flew from Kansas with high priority aboard aircraft. It was today when the 1st Infantry Division was supposed to be ready to start seeing action, fighting with the US VII Corps. However, the VII Corps was in many ways no more. The 1st Armored & 3rd Infantry Divisions had been lost in (respectively) Bavaria and then Baden–Wurttemberg. That pre-war deployed brigade of the 1st Infantry was still active, down in southern Bavaria with the Canadians and the West Germans, but everyone else was gone: the destruction went beyond combat troops with much of the corps supporting assets lost too. Soviet forces were now advancing on Mannheim. They were heading for this city beside the Rhine by way of Heidelberg. Fearing the worst, the divisional commander didn’t want to be under VII Corps command in such a situation where almost everyone else had been beaten when they had been beforehand. The morale collapse and casualty count was horrendous. There was no choice in this for him though. The Soviet’s newly arriving Eighth Tank Army had taken over from their worn-down Thirty–Eighth Army. Down the course of the Neckar River valley they sent one regiment of their 254th Motor Rifle Division but the majority of that Hungary-based division followed the nearby autobahn. Outnumbered, the 1st Infantry Division might have been but they had air support and there were plenty of West German Territorials still around to impede the Soviet twin attack. The 254th Division came off badly from the engagements and couldn’t even get to Heidelberg, let alone the objective of Mannheim. That American divisional commander found himself pleased to be proven wrong in his fears of impending doom. The rest of the Eighth Tank Army was elsewhere and fighting the French II Corps. Stuttgart was behind them (not directly occupied but penetrated by motor rifle columns) and they went towards the Rhine through the Karlsruhe–Pforzheim–Baden-Baden area. Their 93rd Guards Motor Rifle Division led the 19th Guards Tank Division to reach the Rhine before nightfall. Many French troops fell back in reasonable order over the Rhine into France itself. Others didn’t though. French paratroopers – their 11th Parachute Division – were still fighting in West Germany alongside their own armour and some tanks from beaten II Corps units. Stretching in a line from Baden-Baden to Calw, entrance for the Soviets into the Black Forest region on the eastern side of the Rhine was delayed. The 13th Guards Tank Division was an opponent which should have overcome the French here but NATO air strikes didn’t allow any more than two regiments from that formation to get anywhere near the frontlines. The French pulled back slowly, counterattacking soon enough too to retake ground lost. It couldn’t go on forever yet it would through tonight. They weren’t just protecting the French border from being reached – Strasbourg was in the middle there! – but providing an avenue of escape for NATO forces over in southern Bavaria.
Without nuclear attacks being made to halt the Soviets (France’s chief of the defence staff had wanted to target the Eighth Tank Army), the whole NATO forward position in Bavaria stretching all the way to the Danube was untenable. This had been territory proudly held onto by the West German II Corps – they had taken the brigades of Americans and Canadians who’d withdrawn towards them under command – but they couldn’t keep it anymore if they wanted to survive. The Eighth Tank Army was closing in upon the French border. At any moment Thirty–Eighth Army units could strike southwards to get in behind the II Corps to stop an escape. All the Soviets had to do was reach the frontiers of either Austria or Switzerland and the supply link, and way out, would be lost. Then there was too the Czechoslovak Army. It had mobilised slowly but was now crossing into Bavaria. When they reached the frontlines, a frontal attack by them would surely see NATO lose all its troops that had held on here if that rear-area cut off wasn’t made first. The decision should have been a military one but it became a political issue. Munich was inside that area of southern Bavaria held and would have to be abandoned. Wörner had earlier talked his allies out of making his nation a nuclear battlefield. He had argued that when NATO got its full armies in the field, territory could be retaken. That argument was used against him when it came to Bavaria. How could NATO keep fighting if troops were cut off when they could join others arriving to later regain what was lost? He was loath to do it but he caved in. Many Territorial troops would stay behind as rear-guards but everyone else was given the order to cut and run. There was to no retreat back over the Rhine bridges into France though. The II Corps would continue to fight on West German soil, now in Baden–Wurttemberg. France was forming another corps command from reserve armoured divisions and Foreign Legion troops to link up with their paratroopers in the Black Forest. The goal would be to hold there, on the eastern side of the Rhine. Easy it wasn’t going to be to do but it was thought possible.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 7, 2019 20:59:47 GMT
I shall do another map tomorrow or Saturday to give a picture of how this all looks.
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amir
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Post by amir on Nov 8, 2019 2:04:58 GMT
The Big Red One (1st ID(M)) commanding general at this time was MG Leonard Wishart III. He doesn’t get much press, but as a LTC he led a battalion of the 1st Cavalry in 1971, recovering from an ambush to lead a three day fight against an entrenched NVA regiment (-) in a bunker complex, holding the field, extricating a trapped company, and recovering all casualties to include one MIA.
By then, the Vietnam war didn’t get much good press, and the fight happened without any reporters present even though it was close to Saigon near Xuan Loc. Accounts of the fight mention that the weather precluded much effective CAS (due to low ceiling) and the enemy AAA prevented direct reinforcement or CASEVAC. In addition artillery was also periodically diverted to counter-battery NVA fires on Bien Hoa AB. So, mostly a one on one infantry fight.
Just the kind of experience to incline you to lead your division INTO the attacking enemy and seize a victory!
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 8, 2019 11:06:26 GMT
James Have the Dutch considered breaching the dykes? Would cause huge damage and probably considerable loss of life but might stall the Soviet attacks a bit.[Also probably less lives being lost than allowing the invasion to continue with the way the Soviets are treating civilians. However sounds like it might already be too late for that.
Steve
Not something I planned for. Blowing the dykes would be hard too. The Dutch weren't excepting what happened. What parts of their country they have left they could do that though as lordroel says, I don't think it would be done. Well i am trying to find out more information, might takes some time, but as far as i know, there where no plans to blow up the dykes as that would effect hundreds of thousands of people. I can't see it. Flooding ground and killing people doesn't seem the thing to be done when NATO will always want to retake what it lost: floodwater would negatively effect counteroffensives too.
I accept its unlikely because of the probable huge impact on the population and that it would probably be very hard to reverse afterwards. However given the crushing defeat NATO is facing I wonder if their thinking stopping/hindering the Soviet advance some in the Netherlands might decide its worth at least thinking about.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 8, 2019 11:22:52 GMT
I shall do another map tomorrow or Saturday to give a picture of how this all looks.
James
Good that would help us visualise things better. Chapter 131 shows some ability to fight back by NATO but its still grim and with a lot of men and equipment lost and others exposed while the Soviets still have a lot of forces to commit. Hopefully the forces in Bavaria can withdraw safely and the fighting retreat by the 3rd Armoured and their allies works and the US 5th Corp hasn't costs itself too much strength in its attacks. Still looking very grim and very likely that, at least without nukes France is going to be mostly overrun.
Steve
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amir
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Post by amir on Nov 8, 2019 14:22:55 GMT
Coevorden was the III US Corps main ammunition supply point with prestocks is for all III US Corps POMCUS sets plus 2AD FWD. Thats a thirty day supply of ammunition lost. No real way to make that up short of sealift. I wonder what’s happening in the US Army/USAF nuclear custody units? Most of the North German garrison locations for lance/luftwaffe Pershing/artillery shells/adm have been overrun, and it looks like the pace of advance may have captured field sites as well. I don’t recall if Buchel has been overrun, but Volkel is definitely threatened. I’m assuming the USAF is evacuating their munitions from their own bases, my question is for the dual key munitions. Also, with Heilbronn/Swabisch Gmünd overrun, the US Pershing’s have lost their garrison area and the Wuscheim GLCMs have the enemy close as well- they can shift dispersal areas west, but risk loss of the base infrastructure. At what point will NATO (not France) decide they are at the point of “use or lose” with their theatre deterrent? I know that Coevorden was a big place but the (limited) info I have says that there were more ammo depots elsewhere too: Kevelaer was supposedly a big one. Regardless, the loss of that one, ad the divisional sets nearby, will be a massive blow. I guess ammo can be airlifted in... but that would be a massive undertaking and using jets assigned to other missions. NATO missile units were ordered west but many garrisons are gone. Buchel is unoccupied and, yes, places like Volkel are close to the frontlines. I'm not too up to speed on how thinsg would go but I would imagine a massed evac of anything nuclear related overriding anything else. Bits and pieces, people too, are likely to be in Soviet hands by now. They can keep withdrawing backwards but there will come a point when it gets to that stage. Spot on- it’s Kevelaer, not Coevorden. Kevelaer is the big Corps depot- also has lots of boom for the artillery at every echelon. I was having an attack of hypocaffeinemia when I was writing!
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 8, 2019 20:43:07 GMT
The Big Red One (1st ID(M)) commanding general at this time was MG Leonard Wishart III. He doesn’t get much press, but as a LTC he led a battalion of the 1st Cavalry in 1971, recovering from an ambush to lead a three day fight against an entrenched NVA regiment (-) in a bunker complex, holding the field, extricating a trapped company, and recovering all casualties to include one MIA. By then, the Vietnam war didn’t get much good press, and the fight happened without any reporters present even though it was close to Saigon near Xuan Loc. Accounts of the fight mention that the weather precluded much effective CAS (due to low ceiling) and the enemy AAA prevented direct reinforcement or CASEVAC. In addition artillery was also periodically diverted to counter-battery NVA fires on Bien Hoa AB. So, mostly a one on one infantry fight. Just the kind of experience to incline you to lead your division INTO the attacking enemy and seize a victory! That does sound like just the right type of general to do that. That Soviet division out of Hungary got a taste of the Big Red One that didn't go down well. It meant that Frankfurt and its wider area remain in NATO hands as a big forward position that it will be hard to finish off unless much of the Rhineland is taken.
I accept its unlikely because of the probable huge impact on the population and that it would probably be very hard to reverse afterwards. However given the crushing defeat NATO is facing I wonder if their thinking stopping/hindering the Soviet advance some in the Netherlands might decide its worth at least thinking about.
I'm not dismissing it out of hand... it just seems unlikely. The Dutch government will be surely opposed too!
James
Good that would help us visualise things better. Chapter 131 shows some ability to fight back by NATO but its still grim and with a lot of men and equipment lost and others exposed while the Soviets still have a lot of forces to commit. Hopefully the forces in Bavaria can withdraw safely and the fighting retreat by the 3rd Armoured and their allies works and the US 5th Corp hasn't costs itself too much strength in its attacks. Still looking very grim and very likely that, at least without nukes France is going to be mostly overrun.
Steve
Yep, things are still far from over. NATO is counterattacking and having success but there is a lot going on: overall the Soviets keep moving forward and the need is there to keep withdrawing so as to not get encircled. Those British troops falling back to the Ruhr are the last of the pre-war deployed BAOR too: so many were lost early on. The news won't have been told to the public back home either. It will take a lot to finish off France especially as the French have a big reserve pool and the Americans will flood more reinforcements through France. The war is creeping towards France though and there will be renewed pressure to go nuclear with that. Spot on- it’s Kevelaer, not Coevorden. Kevelaer is the big Corps depot- also has lots of boom for the artillery at every echelon. I was having an attack of hypocaffeinemia when I was writing! As said, my info was limited but I'm glad it was correct. Corrections are always welcome though!
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 8, 2019 20:49:36 GMT
132 – Decision made elsewhere
East German forces who had seen action so far during this war when fighting under Soviet supervision had done well. The Volksarmee hadn’t preformed the impossible nor won everywhere that they met with the enemy, but there had been no unmitigated disasters seen. These were all regulars, full-time troops moved from their garrisons at the outbreak of war and sent into the fighting across in West Germany as well as in West Berlin. The East Germans quietly began mobilising their reservists in the days leading up to the war beginning. At first it had only been officers, especially those in specialist positions, but once the shooting started, full mobilisation was made. The Volksarmee – the army, air force and navy – would treble in size with this. The turnout when men were recalled for military service was high but not full: the missing numbered about eight per cent of those who were supposed to show up. Seeing as this was almost thirty thousand, it would be difficult for the East German regime to at once suddenly start persecuting all those who failed to do their duty but they started down that route regardless of the challenge. Many of the missing soon reported for service once it became clear what the implications really were for them yet several thousand still refused to show up. These men didn’t want to fight and would rather be jailed, even shot, than go to war. The majority of those reservists who were successfully mobilised deployed into West Germany. They were used in all sorts of roles to support the ‘liberation’ of their fellow Germans. Direct combat was involved for a portion of them as the Volksarmee used its reserve divisions in battle.
Three motorised infantry divisions were sent into the northern half of West Germany while the other two went south. The 20th Division arrived on the outskirts of Hamburg and saw battle with West German troops who’d been pushed back towards that city and were cut off from all outside help. Entering the city wasn’t the task for this unit and instead they were employed to push back the frontlines closer into the urban area. The 19th Division came under direct Soviet control – the Second Guards Tank Army – to replace worn-down Soviet motor rifle units fighting against the Dutch to the west of Hamburg. The task was to push the Dutch 41st Armored Brigade into the sea in the Cuxhaven area. The East German reservists managed to secure the already destroyed Nordholz Airbase but finishing off the Dutch wasn’t something that they could do themselves even with more numbers and their opponents almost out of ammunition. Tomorrow the Dutch there would surrender, but not today and only when they finally ran out of bullets. The 17th Division was sent towards Hannover. There were British and West German troops trapped in there. The use of these East German reservists here under Soviet orders broke the last resistance… it broke the 17th Division too when massive casualties were inflicted. Still, there was a ceasefire arranged and overnight those NATO troops around that city, among close to a million civilians all caught up in the fighting too, would give in. The 6th Division was dispatched to join the East German III Corps fighting in the northwestern part of Bavaria. They joined with the regular troops in the battles against the West Germans defending the Spessart and the middle of the winding Main River valley. The additional numbers here made the difference for the attack made by the Volksarmee regulars though their opponents were in the midst of withdrawing due to events elsewhere. NATO was shortening its lines and a retreat was made so no real victory was achieved here. Finally, the 10th Division also went into Bavaria and travelled quite some distance southwards. They were sent to the Danube to engage the West Germans holding that river line and blocking access to southern Bavaria. Taking them under command, the Soviet Thirty–Eighth Army put them on the frontlines while moving out its own men ready to use them elsewhere. The 10th Division quickly discovered the realities of war and had a torrid time faced with air and artillery attacks. When hit as hard as they were, neither the East Germans, nor their Soviet masters, realised that this was all a cover for that massed withdrawal being made out of southern Bavaria. The distraction would work with the reservists far from home here achieving nothing but being slaughtered.
Marshal Ogarkov had issued the orders which sent these East Germans where they did: there was no involvement from the East Germans themselves about where to employ their men. He gave them these tasks expecting less than was actually achieved – Hannover hadn’t seemed ready to yet fall and the Spessart fight was a mess – so the failures met didn’t enrage him. What he wasn’t best pleased with was the rate of desertion. Reservists had turned out for the Volksarmee but many of them soon ran. This occurred among the large combat units and also those involved in the many, scattered tasks of engineering, supply, transport & POW work. Their regular counterparts had seen some desertion occur but that was miniscule: a good few thousand reservists fled towards the enemy lines, especially when going up against their fellow Germans. It wasn’t a good thing to see. The Czechoslovaks and Poles were slowly bringing their armies into battle – all regulars – and he considered what happened with the East Germans a sign of things to come with them. However, there were more pressing matters that were demanding his time. The war’s third day was coming to a close. The fighting still went onwards though: it wasn’t going to stop for the hours of darkness. There remained a lot going on, much of it demanding his personal attention.
The Hamburg and Cuxhaven pockets weren’t the only areas of West Germany where resistance was still being met near to the North Sea coastline. The entry of the 5th Guards Army Corps into the north of the Netherlands meant that there was a larger pocket formed between Bremen and the Ems River. There were West Germans with their 32nd Panzergrenadier Brigade fighting near Bremen and along the Weser while the Dutch 4th Infantry Division was at Rheine. These NATO units were now isolated. Behind them was a large portion of territory which Ogarkov wanted to take not for just its worth as occupied ground but because it was full of military facilities. There were airbases, naval installations and weapons storages sites throughout. The VDV & DShV units in Bremen as well as the several worn-down but still combat-capable motor rifle units from the Second Guards Tank Army made a night attack. The gap between the Dutch and the West Germans was wide and held only but scattered reservists of no real value: the motor rifle units went up through there while those at Bremen made a frontal attack to keep NATO busy. Incoming air attacks were made yet these weren’t much: what was going on elsewhere held enemy attention. By midnight, the Küsten Canal was reached. It was a hundred meters wide and quite a defensive position if NATO had the troops to hold it. There were none though. It was crossed over and the advance continued onwards into the early hours of Wednesday towards East Frisia. Several airbases from which NATO jets had departed ahead of the attack were taken unopposed though at Wilhelmshaven there was a major fight. West German warships were long gone. Many security troops in Bundesmarine service, reservists especially, were still present. They fought. Port facilities had already been destroyed either in organised demolitions or Soviet missile attacks yet still the defenders fought on. They did so until they ran out of ammunition in the spite of the hopelessness of the situation. Ogarkov couldn’t understand the futility of such a fight. It took many Soviet lives too: soldiers he wanted to soon employ elsewhere.
Far away from the frontlines, there was the passage being made through Poland of the Eleventh Guards and Twenty–Eighth Armies. Polish national mobilisation was being done in a manner to not impede their progress. Though he didn’t know it, Ogarkov’s reinforcements for the fighting in Western Europe were misidentified by NATO intelligence when satellites spotted the movement. The West thought that they were Poles, not Soviet second-line troops. These two field armies consisted of those Category B units from the Soviet Army’s strength in the western USSR. Moving by rail, they were flowing across Poland inbound for East Germany. They’d come off their trains as far forward as possible though not inside West Germany as hoped. There had been much rail infrastructure captured intact early on in the war which connected the peacetime civilian links between the divided Germanies that had been made use of before. NATO had bombed much of it. Wolfsburg was a prime example of what could be done with targeted air power, so too Berba down in Hessen. The facilities at each had been hit again and again by low-flying F-111s & Tornados in the face of Soviet fighters and SAMs doing all they could to stop that. There were other railyards where the unloading of those two armies was going to take place back in East Germany but time would have been saved by making use of those west of the Inner-German Border. Ogarkov was aiming to start using the two armies in battle come late Thursday: the current frontlines were far from where they would come off those trains. Both would see action along the Rhine. NATO had yet to be beaten here but with the entry of those fresh troops, Ogarkov believed that he could crack the opposition that had only just stopped his forward troops by using his reinforcements. Four tank divisions, four motor rifle divisions and two artillery divisions were sure to do that. The war would move to Belgium afterwards… then the English Channel next.
Earlier in the day, just as ‘the slingshot’ was unleashed where the Third Shock Army had thundered into the Netherlands, Ogarkov had been informed that Operation Krasny Orel was to take place starting in the early hours of the war’s fourth day. Red Eagle was the airborne raid upon the British mainland.
It wasn’t to be an operation that Ogarkov’s headquarters would control. Western-TVD would remain focused on the fighting in Western Europe while Red Eagle would be commanded direct by Stavka. It was the brain-trust back in Moscow – ambitious young officers reporting to Defence Minister Marshal Sokolov – who had dreamt it up earlier in the year. It was a contingency operation, one to only be put in effect should American-led Western aggression force the Soviet Union to war. Ogarkov had been shown the final plans and asked his opinion. It wasn’t as if he was in a position to give an honest answer to say every rifleman who went would eventually be lost. He did as they wanted and approved the concept though did warn than it was still a big risk in strategic terms despite the operational value with regards to assisting Plan Zhukov / Operation Elbe. They heard only the first part back in Moscow. The exact timing had never been a given as to when Red Eagle was to be launched. There had been no set date for it with regards as to how many days into the war it would take place. Ogarkov had assumed that it would be a week after the first crossings were made of the Inner-German Border. He was now shown to be incorrect in that. Because it was outside of his jurisdiction – above his pay grade it could be said –, Ogarkov had no input into the decision to launch it tomorrow. The decision was made elsewhere and he just had to go along with what his superiours wanted. Ogarkov was aware that they believed that the war was almost won and that Sokolov, Ligachev & the others were content with how things had gone so far, at least here in Western Europe anyway. They did have access to more information than him too. There could be a better judgement made by Stavka of the overall strategic situation than he could give. It was just how things were. Ogarkov did as told and assigned forces and assets to assist in the readiness for Red Eagle to go ahead.
This preparation made included making sure that Leeuwarden Airbase in the north of the Netherlands fell and then also seeing that his tanks got to the airfield at De Kooy near to Den Helder naval base. They would be of immense importance in assisting the upcoming operations across in Britain. He also had to reassign his last remaining unused DShV airmobile brigade (the 38th Guards Landing–assault) to support Red Eagle: Ogarkov had wanted to use it in the Netherlands along the Maas river where the 47th Guards Tank Division ended up failing to get across without them. A whole brigade of Spetsnaz men, the 4th Brigade (a unit not under his command) needed to be transported forward through West Germany. This wasn’t a taxing task as that brigade contained less than a thousand men overall but it meant moving assets around. Certain airbases on each side of the Inner-German Border needed extra SAM protection too. This was to ensure that there was the ability to move those VDV men who would be going into Britain. Both the 76th Guards Airborne Division and the 345th Guards Airborne Regiment had Red Eagle tasks as those airmobile and special forces brigades did. Airlift for them was already assigned and kept out of the war just like the fighting men. When undertaking Operation Elbe, there had been very few major drops of paratroopers nor airlifts of men within West Germany. He’d sent VDV paratroopers in via road and his DShV troops had gone into the fight in multiple helicopter flights rather than all at once. The Soviet Air Force had kept back the majority of its big transports and few of the large helicopters of the Soviet Army had yet to see battle. In addition, civilian air transport from airlines such as Aeroflot but also Interflug, the Polish LOT and CSA from Czechoslovakia had all been marshalled as well.
Through the Tuesday, as much of the Netherlands was overrun, there was fighting in the Rhineland & the advances were made in Baden–Wurttemberg, what was being called the 15th Guards Airborne Corps (an old command, re-established for Red Eagle) got itself ready. Information reached Ogarkov that a British Army brigade meant to be landing at Zeebrugge was still in Britain. He’d planned to throw dozens of aircraft on attack missions against that Belgian port to hit the British as they started arriving. They hadn’t left yet. He knew that the planners of Red Eagle drew up their mission with the belief that Britain would be near empty of regular troops by the time the paratroopers started landing. That information was passed on along with the verification to Stavka. They acknowledged it, just they’d acknowledged beforehand the intelligence he passed on about how the missile attacks on the UK were keeping the majority of the Territorial Army units stuck at home too. Red Eagle was going ahead regardless though despite what Ogarkov passed on. Sokolov and his lackeys knew better…
In the early hours of the Wednesday August 26th, Krasny Orel began. Britain was being invaded. Ogarkov had no role in that and he could only wish it success. Whether it worked, or it didn’t, it could only help the ongoing war in Western Europe that he considered was soon to be won here by massed tanks, not paratroopers jumping into a hornet’s nest.
End of Part Three
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