belushitd
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Post by belushitd on Aug 5, 2021 20:02:59 GMT
Another thing I just thought of... Virtually all mainland Europe NATO allies are occupied and vanish. Its entirely possible that the Russians roll west and take the whole ball of wax.
Belushi TD
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 5, 2021 20:06:45 GMT
Another thing I just thought of... Virtually all mainland Europe NATO allies are occupied and vanish. Its entirely possible that the Russians roll west and take the whole ball of wax. Belushi TD You mean Round 2, if that is the case the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom might start D-day Part II.
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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Aug 5, 2021 20:43:16 GMT
Another thing I just thought of... Virtually all mainland Europe NATO allies are occupied and vanish. Its entirely possible that the Russians roll west and take the whole ball of wax. Belushi TD I'm not sure if the Russians could just roll up and take what they please in 1992. The USSR fall in 1989 or 1990 so could they have recovered and moved fast enough to take over most of mainland Europe? My guess would be no. They take over land sure but I should think that the Russians would be more about removing those damn Nazis from their lands once again. Based on the name I'm guessing Italy also comes with. So the world is going to have alot of far east people who view their leader like a god. That is going suck for people who have to deal with them.
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 6, 2021 0:40:10 GMT
In that case, the Nazis would not have it either way.
I agree with Belushi - the Russians are going to nuke early and heavily.
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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Aug 6, 2021 2:44:34 GMT
In that case, the Nazis would not have it either way. I agree with Belushi - the Russians are going to nuke early and heavily. The Nazis are going to be rolled over like hotcakes in a matter of day or weeks. The world is 60 years ahead of them and with no time to get an idea on when they now are the Russians will be rolling into their cities before Hitler can do much of note. By 1993 our biggest worry will be uplifting a people nearly a human lifetime out of date.
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 6, 2021 4:53:26 GMT
I’m not sure why some would take it for granted that the Russians, who were the Soviet Union only months before, would not fight according to their doctrine and utilise quite massive nuclear strikes. I don’t think that there would be much of a people left to uplift.
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Post by SpaceOrbisHistory on Aug 6, 2021 5:30:40 GMT
I’m not sure why some would take it for granted that the Russians, who were the Soviet Union only months before, would not fight according to their doctrine and utilise quite massive nuclear strikes. I don’t think that there would be much of a people left to uplift. Oh I'm sure they will fire a metric fuck ton of their nukes at Germany but this is the Axis powers, not just the Nazis. Some of that would have to be sent south to Japan. So unless you're of the mind the Russians are going to nuke most of continental Europe people will need to be uplifted to at least 1990s living standards. So you should expect long lines of mass vaccine injections as the downtimers get their shots for various diseases that didn't exist in 1942. I for one would love to see how the Imperial Japanese forces react to the news that Japan was nuked twice and now makes shows with cute high school girls that fight evil and shows about monkey people from space that yell alot and blow shit up that has some green things that have massive balls that great wishes. I would expect a lot of absolutely confused expressions from them when we show them anime and manga stories from postwar. I would think Godzilla would still be a big thing becuase who doesn't love seeing a massive dinosaur with massive blue color fire attack.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2021 8:18:56 GMT
I’m not sure why some would take it for granted that the Russians, who were the Soviet Union only months before, would not fight according to their doctrine and utilise quite massive nuclear strikes. I don’t think that there would be much of a people left to uplift. Oh I'm sure they will fire a metric fuck ton of their nukes at Germany but this is the Axis powers, not just the Nazis. Some of that would have to be sent south to Japan. So unless you're of the mind the Russians are going to nuke most of continental Europe people will need to be uplifted to at least 1990s living standards. So you should expect long lines of mass vaccine injections as the downtimers get their shots for various diseases that didn't exist in 1942. I for one would love to see how the Imperial Japanese forces react to the news that Japan was nuked twice and now makes shows with cute high school girls that fight evil and shows about monkey people from space that yell alot and blow shit up that has some green things that have massive balls that great wishes. I would expect a lot of absolutely confused expressions from them when we show them anime and manga stories from postwar. I would think Godzilla would still be a big thing becuase who doesn't love seeing a massive dinosaur with massive blue color fire attack.
They might well attack Japan, although 1942 japan wasn't at war with them. However the one thing that 1992 Russia isn't short of is nukes and with the Nazis suddenly occupying chunks of western Russia, along with Belarus, the Baltic states and most/all of Ukraine its going to be open season on Germany.
There will be some interesting questions for the Russian leadership. Do they try and 'regain' Ukraine [especially] and possibly other areas? Given their relatively weak military and economic state plus that 1992 US and Britain are about I doubt they will seek to establish a buffer zone in eastern Europe, or possibly not as much of one. Although would expect them to demand a share in the occupation of Germany, at least unless they simply decide its going to be so badly nukes its better burdening the west with rebuilding.
Also, what does it do about China? Will a post-Soviet Russia want to allow Mao to power there or continue to support the KMT? They will probably want to do something so the country doesn't became a US satellite. Unless they decide to support Mao simply to stop this and also screw over China for ~30 years as he did OTL.
Thinking about it they might want to make sure they get all of Korea to prevent the establishment of a pro-west south and also a share of Japan.
Of course the US especially will seek to counter most of this but without nearby bases with the continent now [albeit briefly] Nazi occupied along with most of eastern Asia under Japanese rule.
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 6, 2021 9:08:34 GMT
I’m not sure why some would take it for granted that the Russians, who were the Soviet Union only months before, would not fight according to their doctrine and utilise quite massive nuclear strikes. I don’t think that there would be much of a people left to uplift. Oh I'm sure they will fire a metric fuck ton of their nukes at Germany but this is the Axis powers, not just the Nazis. Some of that would have to be sent south to Japan. So unless you're of the mind the Russians are going to nuke most of continental Europe people will need to be uplifted to at least 1990s living standards. So you should expect long lines of mass vaccine injections as the downtimers get their shots for various diseases that didn't exist in 1942. I for one would love to see how the Imperial Japanese forces react to the news that Japan was nuked twice and now makes shows with cute high school girls that fight evil and shows about monkey people from space that yell alot and blow shit up that has some green things that have massive balls that great wishes. I would expect a lot of absolutely confused expressions from them when we show them anime and manga stories from postwar. I would think Godzilla would still be a big thing becuase who doesn't love seeing a massive dinosaur with massive blue color fire attack. This, as said, is for all intents and purposes, the Soviet Union. The military and political establishment still includes war veterans. All will remember the utter devastation inflicted by the Nazis. Now they have an opportunity of destroying them and saving millions of Soviet lives, including perhaps their own relatives and ancestors? As such, Germany and Austria are gone. Several hundred warheads worth of gone. Death rate would be at least 80% from the initial strikes, with many, many more dying afterwards. Italy as well might cop a few buckets of sunshine for good measure. Eastern Europe will be liberated with extreme prejudice. In light of the conditions, there won’t be a neo-Soviet Empire, but those nations will be more likely to get their support from the intact USA. I must confess that I have no knowledge or experience of what you describe as modern Japanese popular culture. However, I don’t think you’re going to get an opportunity to try and shock them culturally, at least not before they get hit by the Red Chinese and the Russians - in the former case, their IRBMs are extremely capable of destroying the Home Islands. In 1992, the Chicomms had 60 DF-3A, 10 DF-4, 10+ DF-5, ~10 DF-21, plus gravity bombs for their H-6s. Given what the Empire of Japan did to China and is doing to China as of 1942, are the PLA likely to hold fire for cultural conversion through anime? No, they are going to nuke and nuke like crazy. Even if they don’t, then the Americans will need to act with overwhelming force to smash them into the position where they are prepared to surrender. In 1942, that will take the destruction of the IJN and several cities being nuked. 1940s Japan had very vulnerable nodes and 150 Chinese warheads are going to mess them up well beyond the point the few wretched survivors give a darn about what descendants of theirs in an alternate universe will now never do. Both Russia and China of 1992 aren’t going to be as nice and forgiving as the USA, Britain and France.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2021 9:25:32 GMT
Oh I'm sure they will fire a metric fuck ton of their nukes at Germany but this is the Axis powers, not just the Nazis. Some of that would have to be sent south to Japan. So unless you're of the mind the Russians are going to nuke most of continental Europe people will need to be uplifted to at least 1990s living standards. So you should expect long lines of mass vaccine injections as the downtimers get their shots for various diseases that didn't exist in 1942. I for one would love to see how the Imperial Japanese forces react to the news that Japan was nuked twice and now makes shows with cute high school girls that fight evil and shows about monkey people from space that yell alot and blow shit up that has some green things that have massive balls that great wishes. I would expect a lot of absolutely confused expressions from them when we show them anime and manga stories from postwar. I would think Godzilla would still be a big thing becuase who doesn't love seeing a massive dinosaur with massive blue color fire attack. This, as said, is for all intents and purposes, the Soviet Union. The military and political establishment still includes war veterans. All will remember the utter devastation inflicted by the Nazis. Now they have an opportunity of destroying them and saving millions of Soviet lives, including perhaps their own relatives and ancestors? As such, Germany and Austria are gone. Several hundred warheads worth of gone. Death rate would be at least 80% from the initial strikes, with many, many more dying afterwards. Italy as well might cop a few buckets of sunshine for good measure. Eastern Europe will be liberated with extreme prejudice. In light of the conditions, there won’t be a neo-Soviet Empire, but those nations will be more likely to get their support from the intact USA. I must confess that I have no knowledge or experience of what you describe as modern Japanese popular culture. However, I don’t think you’re going to get an opportunity to try and shock them culturally, at least not before they get hit by the Red Chinese and the Russians - in the former case, their IRBMs are extremely capable of destroying the Home Islands. In 1992, the Chicomms had 60 DF-3A, 10 DF-4, 10+ DF-5, ~10 DF-21, plus gravity bombs for their H-6s. Given what the Empire of Japan did to China and is doing to China as of 1942, are the PLA likely to hold fire for cultural conversion through anime? No, they are going to nuke and nuke like crazy. Even if they don’t, then the Americans will need to act with overwhelming force to smash them into the position where they are prepared to surrender. In 1942, that will take the destruction of the IJN and several cities being nuked. 1940s Japan had very vulnerable nodes and 150 Chinese warheads are going to mess them up well beyond the point the few wretched survivors give a darn about what descendants of theirs in an alternate universe will now never do. Both Russia and China of 1992 aren’t going to be as nice and forgiving as the USA, Britain and France.
Duh! I forgot there's still a good part of communist China left, although the bulk of its population and territory have been lost to its 1942 version, which is going to screw it over in the short/medium term.
Fully agree that neither Russia or China will be gentle to Germany or Japan respectively. Its not going to be pleasant for the people [survivors rather] in those countries, or the ones suffering the fall-out overthrow. Russia might be a little more restrictive because with prevailing winds going eastwards they don't want too much fall-out heading their way. However high altitude air bursts will do crippling damage without much fall-out.
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belushitd
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Post by belushitd on Aug 6, 2021 19:40:04 GMT
I find it interesting that the assumption is that the Soviet Union is toothless in 1992 compared to 1989. Remember, the parts of the Soviet Union that split off have a pretty high correlation with the parts of the Soviet Union that got switched with Nazi Germany and their conquests. Yes, a few of the southern ones are not, but the Russians still have the massed armies equipped with stuff like the T-80, T-72, etc that has an enormous advantage over anything the Nazis have or are even thinking about. The armor on the tanks mentioned is immune to anything the Germans can shoot at them and their guns can go through most of the German armor lengthwise. Hell, I think the T-55 and T-54 can roll over anything the Germans had. There's more vulnerability there, but there will be two things that slow the Russians down. Logistics and the fact that their infantry will be just as vulnerable in 1992 s they were in 1942.
Belushi TD
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 7, 2021 9:56:00 GMT
I find it interesting that the assumption is that the Soviet Union is toothless in 1992 compared to 1989. Remember, the parts of the Soviet Union that split off have a pretty high correlation with the parts of the Soviet Union that got switched with Nazi Germany and their conquests. Yes, a few of the southern ones are not, but the Russians still have the massed armies equipped with stuff like the T-80, T-72, etc that has an enormous advantage over anything the Nazis have or are even thinking about. The armor on the tanks mentioned is immune to anything the Germans can shoot at them and their guns can go through most of the German armor lengthwise. Hell, I think the T-55 and T-54 can roll over anything the Germans had. There's more vulnerability there, but there will be two things that slow the Russians down. Logistics and the fact that their infantry will be just as vulnerable in 1992 s they were in 1942. Belushi TD
Good point that once Russia recovers from the shock its going to have plenty of firepower to drive back the Nazis and their allies by conventional means. However I still think that they will use nukes simply because its the easiest way of gutting Nazi Germany.
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