Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Apr 21, 2019 17:51:21 GMT
I've seen considerable hype about SpaceX putting people on Mars in the next decade, or asteroid mining by the later 21st Century. This got me pondering just how radically different life and society will be if and when humanity takes to the stars. More specifically, it makes me wonder how its economy (or future equivalent) could turn out. Given the potential to find and extract new resources, colonize other worlds, and the extraordinary technology that a space-based society would make use of, how would an interplanetary economy(s) take shape, evolve, and work in general?
Thank you in advance, Zyobot
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 21, 2019 18:01:41 GMT
I've seen considerable hype about SpaceX putting people on Mars in the next decade, or asteroid mining by the later 21st Century. This got me pondering just how radically different life and society will be if and when humanity takes to the stars. More specifically, it makes me wonder how its economy (or future equivalent) could turn out. Given the potential to find and extract new resources, colonize other worlds, and the extraordinary technology that a space-based society would make use of, how would an interplanetary economy(s) take shape, evolve, and work in general? Thank you in advance, Zyobot
I let them answer the question: What would an interplanetary economy look like? |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 21, 2019 18:07:04 GMT
If you have things others have a need for, and they have something you have a need for (even cash), then BOOM: you have a space economy! Trade among humans has always been there and always will be.
However, if you have trade you have protectionism interests, monopolies, and so on. Trade wars will come. Fraud will occur, even theft – space piracy – will be seen.
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kyng
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Post by kyng on Apr 22, 2019 15:39:30 GMT
Interesting ideas!
Currently, it wouldn't be legal for any nation to establish a space colony, nor would it be legal to start a mining business: the bodies in outer space (and all of their natural resources) have been designated as the common heritage of mankind, not for public or private exploitation. However, you can bet that this portion of international law will be scrapped or amended as soon as space mining becomes attractive.
I don't expect there will be very many people going to live in outer space - at least, not for now. Any space mining (or crazy far-future stuff, like star lifting) would be done mostly with robots: it's hard to see much value in having humans there. Though, perhaps some people will decide they hate Earth, or perhaps some country will decide to start a penal colony on some asteroid. Once that's done, and the colonies are established, it's easy to see more people following.
Though, it's hard to imagine what an interstellar colony would look like: it's impossible to see how it could function unless some kind of faster-than-light travel is developed. (Or perhaps some means of bringing stars closer to one another, but I guess that's even crazier!)
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 22, 2019 20:09:21 GMT
Interesting ideas! Currently, it wouldn't be legal for any nation to establish a space colony, nor would it be legal to start a mining business: the bodies in outer space (and all of their natural resources) have been designated as the common heritage of mankind, not for public or private exploitation. However, you can bet that this portion of international law will be scrapped or amended as soon as space mining becomes attractive. I don't expect there will be very many people going to live in outer space - at least, not for now. Any space mining (or crazy far-future stuff, like star lifting) would be done mostly with robots: it's hard to see much value in having humans there. Though, perhaps some people will decide they hate Earth, or perhaps some country will decide to start a penal colony on some asteroid. Once that's done, and the colonies are established, it's easy to see more people following. Though, it's hard to imagine what an interstellar colony would look like: it's impossible to see how it could function unless some kind of faster-than-light travel is developed. (Or perhaps some means of bringing stars closer to one another, but I guess that's even crazier!)
Did you mean colony or economy? I can see a separate colony without FTL travel but an economy would be harder to sort out as it would be difficult to trade ideas, let alone products without FTL. Even if a colony is pretty close to Earth, say 10-15 light years you can have support from Earth with technology being transmitted but its going to be difficult really seeing anything going the other way until colonies get very populous or advanced so a trade seems unlikely.
Colonies could be set up by STL ships if either you have some reliable form of suspended animation or some sort of generation ship, although there are likely to be problems, especially with the latter.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Apr 22, 2019 20:51:23 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughts. I get the vibe that since oversight in the space between planets would be hard to achieve (at least at first), a sort of almost anarcho-capitalistic economic system could take shape there--before probably being reigned in once authorities establish a foothold there, of course.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 22, 2019 21:07:36 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughts. I get the vibe that since oversight in the space between planets would be hard to achieve (at least at first), a sort of almost anarcho-capitalistic economic system could take shape there--before probably being reigned in once authorities establish a foothold there, of course.
It might depend on how dependent people in those regions are dependent on centralised centres of supply, especially those supplied/maintained by planetary government. Could be difficult being some sort of pirate if all the food, fuel, electronics etc you need can only be found in say a limited number of centres orbiting the major settled planets. Of course once such production centres become more common and established away from centres of government it becomes a lot easier for rogue operators.
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Apr 23, 2019 19:31:53 GMT
I'd imagine it would look like the era of colonialism in the New World - ships going back and forth between colony and metropole that in part consist of near-constant supply ships that can be disrupted as things in the metropole get in the way, and taking several months to get from one point to another. The main difference is that these colonies would be based around raw materials rather than cash crops, and may well be used as places for cheap manufacturing and services.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Apr 23, 2019 21:36:48 GMT
I'd imagine it would look like the era of colonialism in the New World - ships going back and forth between colony and metropole that in part consist of near-constant supply ships that can be disrupted as things in the metropole get in the way, and taking several months to get from one point to another. The main difference is that these colonies would be based around raw materials rather than cash crops, and may well be used as places for cheap manufacturing and services. One major difference from the European colonialism of yester-centuries is that—at least hopefully—there won’t be indigenous (sentient) aliens that we’d wind up displacing in our collective endeavor to settle the Solar System. Maybe microbial life and such would exist, sure. Nations, if they still exist and for some reason do away with the various space-oriented agreements they signed over the years, would likely struggle and squabble amongst ons other for territory and prestige. That’s another potential way this would seem similar to colonizing the New World, adapted for a distant-future interplanetary civilization of course. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 23, 2019 21:43:55 GMT
I'd imagine it would look like the era of colonialism in the New World - ships going back and forth between colony and metropole that in part consist of near-constant supply ships that can be disrupted as things in the metropole get in the way, and taking several months to get from one point to another. The main difference is that these colonies would be based around raw materials rather than cash crops, and may well be used as places for cheap manufacturing and services.
In the near term I suspect the vast majority of activity would be around the Earth-Luna area as that provides space, raw materials and energy and it would be some decades after that gets developed before the permanent colonisation of the wider system as opposed to some exploration flights really begin.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 23, 2019 21:46:44 GMT
I'd imagine it would look like the era of colonialism in the New World - ships going back and forth between colony and metropole that in part consist of near-constant supply ships that can be disrupted as things in the metropole get in the way, and taking several months to get from one point to another. The main difference is that these colonies would be based around raw materials rather than cash crops, and may well be used as places for cheap manufacturing and services. One major difference from the European colonialism of yester-centuries is that—at least hopefully—there won’t be indigenous (sentient) aliens that we’d wind up displacing in our collective endeavor to settle the Solar System. Maybe microbial life and such would exist, sure. Nations, if they still exist and for some reason do away with the various space-oriented agreements they signed over the years, would likely struggle and squabble amongst ons other for territory and prestige. That’s another potential way this would seem similar to colonizing the New World, adapted for a distant-future interplanetary civilization of course.
Almost certainly, along with some time after that assorted such colonies seeking increasing independence from their 'home' countries, although that would depend on their size and economic viability, their location and ability to sustain themselves and the strength and attitude of the home power. [With no jungle/forests/countryside/desert whatever to hide in resistance to a military occupation by a determined aka brutal state could be difficult].
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 13:16:41 GMT
This got me pondering just how radically different life and society will be if and when humanity takes to the stars. Not much. Earth is the only habitable planet for human beings. Every other potential biosphere will kill us More specifically, it makes me wonder how its economy (or future equivalent) could turn out. Given the potential to find and extract new resources, colonize other worlds, and the extraordinary technology that a space-based society would make use Without magitech wormholes and/or FTL drives, all expensively terraformed planet would have to be self-sufficient. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 26, 2019 13:40:15 GMT
This got me pondering just how radically different life and society will be if and when humanity takes to the stars. More specifically, it makes me wonder how its economy (or future equivalent) could turn out. Given the potential to find and extract new resources, colonize other worlds, and the extraordinary technology that a space-based society would make use Without magitech wormholes and/or FTL drives, all expensively terraformed planet would have to be self-sufficient.
That's definitely a possibility but we will never know for sure until we actually find some other planets with life on them.
Even with almost instantaneous transportation between stellar systems I think every planet/system would have to be largely self-sufficient. Extremely unlikely there will be bulk transfer of foodstuffs between systems or probably not even between planets in the same system. - Although its always risky to make such predictions I know. Only a few centuries back the idea of bulk goods moving overland for any distance seemed impossible or than flying vehicles would ever be practical.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 19:07:39 GMT
That's definitely a possibility but we will never know for sure until we actually find some other planets with life on them. If life has evolved on another planet with Earth-like characteristics, chances are our exposure to it will be fatal. Even if its just vegetation. If humans can't survive on the relatively sterile Moon without spacesuits, they don't stand much of chance anywhere else. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 27, 2019 9:47:56 GMT
That's definitely a possibility but we will never know for sure until we actually find some other planets with life on them. If life has evolved on another planet with Earth-like characteristics, chances are our exposure to it will be fatal. Even if its just vegetation. If humans can't survive on the relatively sterile Moon without spacesuits, they don't stand much of chance anywhere else.
We can't survive on the moon because its sterile, as well as a vacuum totally exposed to radiation and with as a result huge temperature variation as well.
What you suggest may occur. Or you could have the opposite with life on that planet being unable to interact with humanity and vice versa, which leads to the problem that we can't life off local foodstuff. Or anywhere in between. Only way we will know for sure is if/when it occurs.
The other option of course is not settling planets at all, which depending on the ecological stability of such set ups and whether you can set them up in alien systems.
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