stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 23, 2019 20:34:06 GMT
That's the only practical way if you don't have friendly bases/ports. Which is a big problem for the Germans in the Carribean especially and probably a factor for both of them elsewhere. However there are problems with coaling at sea. Even if you find a suitable bay somewhere, which is very strongly recommended its a slow hard and dirty task. Also do you keep the colliers with the fleet, probably slowing it down and meaning they need escorts or have them traveling independently? The latter means they need to know where to meet up with your fleet, which can restrict flexibility, especially since radio is still very new short ranged and unreliable and also their in danger of being intercepted by the enemy. Plus colliers will supply coal but what about ammunition, spare parts, ability to repair damage at sea, which even if relatively minor can restrict the affected ship and hence the fleet as a whole?
I remember that Russian also had that trouble if i am correct during the Russo-Japanese War.
Very true, especially after they upset the British by the attack on the trawlers in the North Sea. That meant they were denied use of British ports or of the Suez canal. IIRC the fleet started off loaded down with coal on their decks to help them make the trip.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 24, 2019 3:10:02 GMT
I remember that Russian also had that trouble if i am correct during the Russo-Japanese War. Very true, especially after they upset the British by the attack on the trawlers in the North Sea. That meant they were denied use of British ports or of the Suez canal. IIRC the fleet started off loaded down with coal on their decks to help them make the trip.
I would assume that neither Germany ore America have that problem. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 24, 2019 15:12:54 GMT
Very true, especially after they upset the British by the attack on the trawlers in the North Sea. That meant they were denied use of British ports or of the Suez canal. IIRC the fleet started off loaded down with coal on their decks to help them make the trip.
I would assume that neither Germany ore America have that problem.
Well depending on the political situation I doubt the UK would be as opposed to either power but their still unlikely to be happy with either belligerent using their ports for recoaling and other actions that could bring the war to their territory. If they think one power or the other is more responsible or there were attacks on British shipping on the high seas you could see a bias against one side or the other but they would basically want the war ended ASAP because it would be bad for trade and Britain is still IIRC the primary trading power in the war at that time.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 24, 2019 15:15:43 GMT
I would assume that neither Germany ore America have that problem. Well depending on the political situation I doubt the UK would be as opposed to either power but their still unlikely to be happy with either belligerent using their ports for recoaling and other actions that could bring the war to their territory. If they think one power or the other is more responsible or there were attacks on British shipping on the high seas you could see a bias against one side or the other but they would basically want the war ended ASAP because it would be bad for trade and Britain is still IIRC the primary trading power in the war at that time.
I can assume if there where a Naval faction in the German Empire that after the Germans failing to win the war against the Americans and with the large loss of ships and their crew, we will see the Germans focusing on its land forces instead of rebuilding its navy, but then again, you never know with the Kaiser. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 24, 2019 15:37:26 GMT
Well depending on the political situation I doubt the UK would be as opposed to either power but their still unlikely to be happy with either belligerent using their ports for recoaling and other actions that could bring the war to their territory. If they think one power or the other is more responsible or there were attacks on British shipping on the high seas you could see a bias against one side or the other but they would basically want the war ended ASAP because it would be bad for trade and Britain is still IIRC the primary trading power in the war at that time.
I can assume if there where a Naval faction in the German Empire that after the Germans failing to win the war against the Americans and with the large loss of ships and their crew, we will see the Germans focusing on its land forces instead of rebuilding its navy, but then again, you never know with the Kaiser.
Yes they could react by deciding that this means they must have a larger navy to protect their interests. Also while the losses have been heavy and will include a lot of experienced men the ships themselves are relatively shortly to be rendered obsolete by the appearance of HMS Dreadnought.
The US faces a similar choice in that while it forces the Germans to withdraw from Cuba and the Caribbean and it has seen heavy losses in both the USN and the merchant marines/trade disruption. Does it decide that it should concentrate on a more defensive force designed to be unbeatable in the vercinity of N America and the Caribbean or that it must also have a markedly stronger blue water navy? Given its feelings at the time and gaining a few years back of the Philippines as well as other Pacific possessions I suspect more the latter.
In this case the naval race might actually start between the two powers with the RN forced to respond to both. Or Germany especially might reduce its naval priorities, especially as the army might argue the navy has been a vast sink of manpower and money and better to commit to a purely coastal and colonial defence force.
One other fact with the late success of the US subs against the German fleet is that could prompt a lot of interest in such weapons, by France as well as both combatants.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 24, 2019 17:45:51 GMT
I can assume if there where a Naval faction in the German Empire that after the Germans failing to win the war against the Americans and with the large loss of ships and their crew, we will see the Germans focusing on its land forces instead of rebuilding its navy, but then again, you never know with the Kaiser. Yes they could react by deciding that this means they must have a larger navy to protect their interests. Also while the losses have been heavy and will include a lot of experienced men the ships themselves are relatively shortly to be rendered obsolete by the appearance of HMS Dreadnought.
The US faces a similar choice in that while it forces the Germans to withdraw from Cuba and the Caribbean and it has seen heavy losses in both the USN and the merchant marines/trade disruption. Does it decide that it should concentrate on a more defensive force designed to be unbeatable in the vercinity of N America and the Caribbean or that it must also have a markedly stronger blue water navy? Given its feelings at the time and gaining a few years back of the Philippines as well as other Pacific possessions I suspect more the latter.
In this case the naval race might actually start between the two powers with the RN forced to respond to both. Or Germany especially might reduce its naval priorities, especially as the army might argue the navy has been a vast sink of manpower and money and better to commit to a purely coastal and colonial defence force. One other fact with the late success of the US subs against the German fleet is that could prompt a lot of interest in such weapons, by France as well as both combatants.
Also i can see anti-German sentiment in America being a big thing especially due the Germans raiding the East Coast, they are not going to be friends for a long time. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 25, 2019 10:58:44 GMT
Yes they could react by deciding that this means they must have a larger navy to protect their interests. Also while the losses have been heavy and will include a lot of experienced men the ships themselves are relatively shortly to be rendered obsolete by the appearance of HMS Dreadnought.
The US faces a similar choice in that while it forces the Germans to withdraw from Cuba and the Caribbean and it has seen heavy losses in both the USN and the merchant marines/trade disruption. Does it decide that it should concentrate on a more defensive force designed to be unbeatable in the vercinity of N America and the Caribbean or that it must also have a markedly stronger blue water navy? Given its feelings at the time and gaining a few years back of the Philippines as well as other Pacific possessions I suspect more the latter.
In this case the naval race might actually start between the two powers with the RN forced to respond to both. Or Germany especially might reduce its naval priorities, especially as the army might argue the navy has been a vast sink of manpower and money and better to commit to a purely coastal and colonial defence force. One other fact with the late success of the US subs against the German fleet is that could prompt a lot of interest in such weapons, by France as well as both combatants.
Also i can see anti-German sentiment in America being a big thing especially due the Germans raiding the East Coast, they are not going to be friends for a long time.
Very true and the significant German minority in the US is going to face some problems. Many will seek to demonstrate their loyalty to the US but how much this will be accepted I don't know. Doubt it will go as far as the mass arrests and deportation to camps that occurred for the Japanese minority after Pearl Harbour. There wouldn't be the same racial elements and also the German population is much larger. However you could see a sizeable number of Germans, especially recent arrivals either returning to Germany or moving elsewhere. Canada is the obvious alternative but you could see others moving to areas in Latin America.
Plus the treatment of the Germans in the US is likely to have a bad impact in Germany as well so you could see another reason for the two countries to be deeply mistrusting of each other for some time to come.
How much this might derail development in OTL Europe especially I don't know. If the navy is discredited by its large scale destruction then the army becomes even more influential and probably you have things going roughly as OTL although without a large navy threatening Britain relations with the UK might not deteriorate as much. A German invasion of Belgium is still likely to cause a lot of concern. If there is enough anger and determination to rebuild the navy then while probably aimed more openly at the US it, and the US response, is likely to cause Britain to in turn build up the RN so you could have a 3 way race. Presuming we still have the Russo-Japanese conflict and the same result then Japan and Britain are likely to become even closer allies.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 25, 2019 13:35:32 GMT
Also i can see anti-German sentiment in America being a big thing especially due the Germans raiding the East Coast, they are not going to be friends for a long time. Very true and the significant German minority in the US is going to face some problems. Many will seek to demonstrate their loyalty to the US but how much this will be accepted I don't know. Doubt it will go as far as the mass arrests and deportation to camps that occurred for the Japanese minority after Pearl Harbour. There wouldn't be the same racial elements and also the German population is much larger. However you could see a sizeable number of Germans, especially recent arrivals either returning to Germany or moving elsewhere. Canada is the obvious alternative but you could see others moving to areas in Latin America.
Plus the treatment of the Germans in the US is likely to have a bad impact in Germany as well so you could see another reason for the two countries to be deeply mistrusting of each other for some time to come. How much this might derail development in OTL Europe especially I don't know. If the navy is discredited by its large scale destruction then the army becomes even more influential and probably you have things going roughly as OTL although without a large navy threatening Britain relations with the UK might not deteriorate as much. A German invasion of Belgium is still likely to cause a lot of concern. If there is enough anger and determination to rebuild the navy then while probably aimed more openly at the US it, and the US response, is likely to cause Britain to in turn build up the RN so you could have a 3 way race. Presuming we still have the Russo-Japanese conflict and the same result then Japan and Britain are likely to become even closer allies.
But i the war is not over, the Germans still hold Havana but will not able to reinforce them while the Americans now for a second time have to prepare a invasion of Cuba. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 25, 2019 16:08:19 GMT
Very true and the significant German minority in the US is going to face some problems. Many will seek to demonstrate their loyalty to the US but how much this will be accepted I don't know. Doubt it will go as far as the mass arrests and deportation to camps that occurred for the Japanese minority after Pearl Harbour. There wouldn't be the same racial elements and also the German population is much larger. However you could see a sizeable number of Germans, especially recent arrivals either returning to Germany or moving elsewhere. Canada is the obvious alternative but you could see others moving to areas in Latin America.
Plus the treatment of the Germans in the US is likely to have a bad impact in Germany as well so you could see another reason for the two countries to be deeply mistrusting of each other for some time to come. How much this might derail development in OTL Europe especially I don't know. If the navy is discredited by its large scale destruction then the army becomes even more influential and probably you have things going roughly as OTL although without a large navy threatening Britain relations with the UK might not deteriorate as much. A German invasion of Belgium is still likely to cause a lot of concern. If there is enough anger and determination to rebuild the navy then while probably aimed more openly at the US it, and the US response, is likely to cause Britain to in turn build up the RN so you could have a 3 way race. Presuming we still have the Russo-Japanese conflict and the same result then Japan and Britain are likely to become even closer allies.
But i the war is not over, the Germans still hold Havana but will not able to reinforce them while the Americans now for a second time have to prepare a invasion of Cuba.
Yes but with the German fleet effectively removed from play then to all intents and purposes its now a foregone conclusion. Also as its only Havana the bulk of the Cuban population are probably also hostile to their presence. Given that neither side can really affect the other, other than possibly further attacks on trade and commerce and possibly some actions in Africa where both nations have 'colonies' - including Liberia here - it only makes sense for the two powers to come to terms and agree some settlement. [Although sheer stupidity should never be ruled out unfortunately]. However can't see much chance the war will continue long as its in neither powers interests.
I don't suppose the article cover the cause of the war or whatever aims either side actually have?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 25, 2019 16:45:47 GMT
But i the war is not over, the Germans still hold Havana but will not able to reinforce them while the Americans now for a second time have to prepare a invasion of Cuba. Yes but with the German fleet effectively removed from play then to all intents and purposes its now a foregone conclusion. Also as its only Havana the bulk of the Cuban population are probably also hostile to their presence. Given that neither side can really affect the other, other than possibly further attacks on trade and commerce and possibly some actions in Africa where both nations have 'colonies' - including Liberia here - it only makes sense for the two powers to come to terms and agree some settlement. [Although sheer stupidity should never be ruled out unfortunately]. However can't see much chance the war will continue long as its in neither powers interests. I don't suppose the article cover the cause of the war or whatever aims either side actually have?
Seems to me the Germans where the once most on the offensive and the Americans being the once more on the defense. But still the Americans have to land troops in Cuba and defeat the Germans before they can claim Cuba free of the Germans. |
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