Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 1, 2021 15:59:26 GMT
Which leads to the obvious question. Does our world's magic-less leak into Arendelle, depriving it of magic over a shorter or longer time? Would make things easier for Elsa but would be a possibly fatal situation for the trolls for instance. Not to mention a certain carrot wearer. Didn't think of that, so thanks for bringing that up. I suppose that, to mitigate problems they'd invariably face, Arendelle keeps its magic upon being ISOTed. Uptimer scientists and governments might eventually come in to "study" those findings, but that strikes me as more of a mid-term problem than an immediate one. Another issue I didn't think of until just today is what language Arendelle's people would speak. Would their official language be English, considering how their whole universe was conceived in an American studio? Or, would it be some Scandinavian language, by virtue of geographic location? Of course, I assume that Elsa, Anna, and their close advisors and various dignitaries would be proficient in multiple languages (English likely being one of them), but the rest of Arendelle is a different story. Not that it's terribly critical, given that governments easily have the means to translate, never mind how their neighbors speak twenty-first century versions of whatever Scandinavian language is dominant there. Kids would be amazed of the magic in Arendelle. Also, we might see a cult worshipping Elsa. I think she'd dazzle people of all demographics, though violent religious fanatics might lose their shit and force her, her compatriots, and other magical creatures sent along for the ride to double, triple, and quadruple their security ASAP (  ). As far as cults go, I'm not sure how Elsa would appreciate being the focus of some winter-worshipping cult, given how Arendelle is (presumably) very Christian. How much of an in-universe theological explanation there is for the magic that clearly abounds within the setting, I don't know. Either way, there are bound to be plenty of theological debates over where her powers come from as soon as the uptimer faithful get wind of it. What would Pope Francis's comments on the matter be, I wonder? |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jun 1, 2021 16:09:25 GMT
I think she'd dazzle people of all demographics, though violent religious fanatics might lose their shit and force her, her compatriots, and other magical creatures sent along for the ride to double, triple, and quadruple their security ASAP ( ). As far as cults go, I'm not sure how Elsa would appreciate being the focus of some winter-worshipping cult, given how Arendelle is (presumably) very Christian. How much of an in-universe theological explanation there is for the magic that clearly abounds within the setting, I don't know. Either way, there are bound to be plenty of theological debates over where her powers come from as soon as the uptimer faithful get wind of it. What would Pope Francis's comments on the matter be, I wonder? The Catholic Church would be surprised but would appear for calm. The Arab World would be more condemning, might be calling it another heretic nation. What's worse is that radicalized youths may conduct terrorist attacks in Arendelle thinking it's an idolatrous nation for having magic. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 1, 2021 16:22:37 GMT
I think she'd dazzle people of all demographics, though violent religious fanatics might lose their shit and force her, her compatriots, and other magical creatures sent along for the ride to double, triple, and quadruple their security ASAP ( ). As far as cults go, I'm not sure how Elsa would appreciate being the focus of some winter-worshipping cult, given how Arendelle is (presumably) very Christian. How much of an in-universe theological explanation there is for the magic that clearly abounds within the setting, I don't know. Either way, there are bound to be plenty of theological debates over where her powers come from as soon as the uptimer faithful get wind of it. What would Pope Francis's comments on the matter be, I wonder? The Catholic Church would be surprised but would appear for calm. The Arab World would be more condemning, might be calling it another heretic nation. What's worse is that radicalized youths may conduct terrorist attacks in Arendelle thinking it's an idolatrous nation for having magic. Which would then force the Arendellians to beef up their national security, never mind the headache that'd come with explaining uptimer religious terrorism to them. They might also receive a quick rundown of what led up to it becoming a problem, with key events like the Iranian Revolution and 9/11 being mentioned in the process. Speaking of which, I'm curious as to how they'd react to all the history that's happened between their time and ours (magical divergences notwithstanding, of course)? The Disney wiki claims the first film takes place in July 1843, with the second (presumably) not long after. If that's the case, then they'd certainly be familiar with the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars, and would've been living through the Age of Revolutions sweeping across mainland Europe. Seeing in that light, I can imagine they'd be greatly dismayed at how the twentieth century proved to be an even greater orgy of blood and radicalism than the nineteenth--two World Wars, communism and fascism, and the fall of Europe's greatest empires in the span of decades. Never mind the Cold War and emergence of MAD as a defining force in modern geopolitics, which is an incredibly dispiriting business in of itself! |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2021 17:30:41 GMT
Which leads to the obvious question. Does our world's magic-less leak into Arendelle, depriving it of magic over a shorter or longer time? Would make things easier for Elsa but would be a possibly fatal situation for the trolls for instance. Not to mention a certain carrot wearer. Didn't think of that, so thanks for bringing that up. I suppose that, to mitigate problems they'd invariably face, Arendelle keeps its magic upon being ISOTed. Uptimer scientists and governments might eventually come in to "study" those findings, but that strikes me as more of a mid-term problem than an immediate one. Another issue I didn't think of until just today is what language Arendelle's people would speak. Would their official language be English, considering how their whole universe was conceived in an American studio? Or, would it be some Scandinavian language, by virtue of geographic location? Of course, I assume that Elsa, Anna, and their close advisors and various dignitaries would be proficient in multiple languages (English likely being one of them), but the rest of Arendelle is a different story. Not that it's terribly critical, given that governments easily have the means to translate, never mind how their neighbors speak twenty-first century versions of whatever Scandinavian language is dominant there. Kids would be amazed of the magic in Arendelle. Also, we might see a cult worshipping Elsa. I think she'd dazzle people of all demographics, though violent religious fanatics might lose their shit and force her, her compatriots, and other magical creatures sent along for the ride to double, triple, and quadruple their security ASAP ( ). As far as cults go, I'm not sure how Elsa would appreciate being the focus of some winter-worshipping cult, given how Arendelle is (presumably) very Christian. How much of an in-universe theological explanation there is for the magic that clearly abounds within the setting, I don't know. Either way, there are bound to be plenty of theological debates over where her powers come from as soon as the uptimer faithful get wind of it. What would Pope Francis's comments on the matter be, I wonder?
Now that's a nasty and all too likely event unfortunately. Its also going to put those religious bodies that aren't calling for them to be killed on the stop. Since the Abrahamic faiths basically consider any supernatural event/ability stems from either god or the devil and other such sources of evil do they have to decide its some symbol of God's will that Else has those powers to avoid having to condemn them?
The trolls are also likely to attract attention although it could be awkward if an our world scientist asks for a DNA sample to try and work out where they fit into the evolutionary scheme of things! 
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 1, 2021 17:45:28 GMT
Now that's a nasty and all too likely event unfortunately. Its also going to put those religious bodies that aren't calling for them to be killed on the stop. Since the Abrahamic faiths basically consider any supernatural event/ability stems from either god or the devil and other such sources of evil do they have to decide its some symbol of God's will that Else has those powers to avoid having to condemn them? I'm no theologian, so I can't give too comprehensive or definite an answer to that. I assume the Catholic Church, as well as other fair-minded Christian denominations, would be nice and contrive some "reasonable" theological justification or another to explain Elsa's powers and the Trolls. Hopefully, this will encourage the Christian faithful to judge people by the content of their character, rather than any mysterious magical abilities they may possess. It's impressionistic, but I can imagine Pope Francis calling Elsa's powers "a gift from God", in an attempt to assuage the initial wave of fear and hysteria that'd break out. Religious communities experiencing a crisis of faith is obvious, but plenty of secular audiences might also act out in bigoted and uncalled-for ways, too. The trolls are also likely to attract attention although it could be awkward if an our world scientist asks for a DNA sample to try and work out where they fit into the evolutionary scheme of things! Yes, their presence would certainly put a wrench in biology. Magic aside, my intuitive (but uneducated) guess is that the evolutionary timeline was somewhat different within the Frozen universe, given how Trolls also emerged as an intelligent and civilizable species alongside humans. Although, I'm also curious as to what the Arendellians might make of modern biology, especially with evolution now being a key pillar of the field? Granted, 1843 is over a decade before Darwin published his signature work on the theory, but I'd also think that at least a few downtimers would take issue with it, and perhaps partner with modern Creationist sects in a joint effort to oppose his teachings. Hopefully, the resulting movement would fizzle out before it can gain serious influence, especially if Elsa invites uptimer scientists to break it all down for a frightened, but curious populace. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2021 17:52:36 GMT
Just had an odd thought, depending on how powerful Else is. I can see someone suggesting she helps in cooling down the planet, although how that would go - other than probably very badly given how complex climatic and environmental issues are - I don't know.
Part of the problem of course is its not the temperature that's the problem as the assorted environmental factors, especially greenhouse gases, causing things to heat up. As such if she did somehow cool down the planet somewhat without causing total chaos the CO2 and other gases are still out there so it would only delay matters and might make it worse as some would now argue the problems was 'solved'.
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 2, 2021 19:08:41 GMT
Just had an odd thought, depending on how powerful Else is. I can see someone suggesting she helps in cooling down the planet, although how that would go - other than probably very badly given how complex climatic and environmental issues are - I don't know.
Part of the problem of course is its not the temperature that's the problem as the assorted environmental factors, especially greenhouse gases, causing things to heat up. As such if she did somehow cool down the planet somewhat without causing total chaos the CO2 and other gases are still out there so it would only delay matters and might make it worse as some would now argue the problems was 'solved'.
Steve
I don't know as much about the scientific underpinnings as you might, but climate change being as complex and variable-ridden as it is, trying to find a singular and straightforward cause that magic can counteract won't be easy. Depending on which version of Elsa we're dealing with-- check her Disney Wiki entry, if you're fine with potential spoilers--she may have the potential to alter global temperatures in the way you're suggesting. However, her being a reasonable individual, I imagine Elsa would consult the best and brightest scientists before trying anything. Never mind needing to consult the international community, and making her case before the United Nations, whose members may be strongly divided as to whether she should do anything. Ditto with what average people on the street, my guess being that a massive swath of the public would not take kindly to some ice elemental freezing their world. Furthermore, even if applying her powers towards that purpose made sense on paper, I'm also worried that the sheer pressure would cause her to slip up on a task that calls for delicacy and precision of the highest order, if she's to deliver the desired result. Should the climate go haywire afterwards, Elsa will get blamed for it, and all the political implications that'd slam her in the face like a brick may just cause her to forego that option in the first place and refuse. In which case, back to the drawing board we go. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2021 10:24:55 GMT
Just had an odd thought, depending on how powerful Else is. I can see someone suggesting she helps in cooling down the planet, although how that would go - other than probably very badly given how complex climatic and environmental issues are - I don't know.
Part of the problem of course is its not the temperature that's the problem as the assorted environmental factors, especially greenhouse gases, causing things to heat up. As such if she did somehow cool down the planet somewhat without causing total chaos the CO2 and other gases are still out there so it would only delay matters and might make it worse as some would now argue the problems was 'solved'.
Steve
I don't know as much about the scientific underpinnings as you might, but climate change being as complex and variable-ridden as it is, trying to find a singular and straightforward cause that magic can counteract won't be easy. Depending on which version of Elsa we're dealing with-- check her Disney Wiki entry, if you're fine with potential spoilers--she may have the potential to alter global temperatures in the way you're suggesting. However, her being a reasonable individual, I imagine Elsa would consult the best and brightest scientists before trying anything. Never mind needing to consult the international community, and making her case before the United Nations, whose members may be strongly divided as to whether she should do anything. Ditto with what average people on the street, my guess being that a massive swath of the public would not take kindly to some ice elemental freezing their world. Furthermore, even if applying her powers towards that purpose made sense on paper, I'm also worried that the sheer pressure would cause her to slip up on a task that calls for delicacy and precision of the highest order, if she's to deliver the desired result. Should the climate go haywire afterwards, Elsa will get blamed for it, and all the political implications that'd slam her in the face like a brick may just cause her to forego that option in the first place and refuse. In which case, back to the drawing board we go.
All too likely I suspect. Only seen the 1st film and there she seems less mature but then she had a hell of a burden with her powers and how out of control they were. It was more her sister who was the heroine who was doing so much to try and sort matters out. Otherwise fully agree. Especially if a 'cold sphere' is centred around her then unless she is moved to either pole - or one after another - she can't cool down large areas without causing great destruction. Plus given assorted groups who can gain advantage from the northern ice cap disappearing there would be likely to be opposition on that ground as well as issues of how practical such a method would be. Coupled with the fact it would treat a symptom rather than cure the problem I think it wouldn't be an idea she or anyone else would go for but could see some people suggesting it.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 3, 2021 10:44:45 GMT
‘WI Q Constantly Bugged Emperor Palpatine?’. In that case, it seems we finally have someone who deserves the trouble they’d get from our favorite, reality-warping comedian played by John DeLancie. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2021 11:16:27 GMT
‘WI Q Constantly Bugged Emperor Palpatine?’. In that case, it seems we finally have someone who deserves the trouble they’d get from our favorite, reality-warping comedian played by John DeLancie.
Literally LOL here. I couldn't stand Q but would be rooting for him in that case.  |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 3, 2021 13:08:00 GMT
‘WI Q Constantly Bugged Emperor Palpatine?’. In that case, it seems we finally have someone who deserves the trouble they’d get from our favorite, reality-warping comedian played by John DeLancie.
Literally LOL here. I couldn't stand Q but would be rooting for him in that case. As would I, my friend. As would I. Somewhat less amusing, though, ‘Tzeentch Becomes Galactic Emperor In 0 ABY’. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 5, 2021 2:17:12 GMT
'Shrek Becomes Grand Master Of The Jedi Order'.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 6, 2021 15:09:44 GMT
' Mad Men Characters React To The 21st Century'. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 7, 2021 17:26:44 GMT
'Khorne Becomes King of Sparta'.
...Oh, shit.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 8, 2021 17:34:54 GMT
‘Ember McLain To That 70s Show.
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). As far as cults go, I'm not sure how Elsa would appreciate being the focus of some winter-worshipping cult, given how Arendelle is (presumably) very Christian. How much of an in-universe theological explanation there is for the magic that clearly abounds within the setting, I don't know. Either way, there are bound to be plenty of theological debates over where her powers come from as soon as the uptimer faithful get wind of it. What would Pope Francis's comments on the matter be, I wonder?
