mullauna
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Post by mullauna on Feb 19, 2019 9:09:46 GMT
The vote was narrow and OTL many Bonn Republic politicians were terrified of Berlin's Kaiserreich, Nazi and wartime associations, so its plausible that a neo-Nazi/neo-fascist parade or rant about the glories of Berlin at the wrong moment could cause a Western or media backlash that flips the vote.
So.. butterflies aside, how does reunited Germany fare ruled from the banks of the Rhine?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 19, 2019 10:54:07 GMT
The vote was narrow and OTL many Bonn Republic politicians were terrified of Berlin's Kaiserreich, Nazi and wartime associations, so its plausible that a neo-Nazi/neo-fascist parade or rant about the glories of Berlin at the wrong moment could cause a Western or media backlash that flips the vote. So.. butterflies aside, how does reunited Germany fare ruled from the banks of the Rhine?
Probably fairly well as it doesn't mean that the bulk of the government isn't uprooted and moved half way across the country and Germany has a pretty decent government. Only problem I could see is that E Germany is likely to feel more isolated as its further away from the centre of government and also access to possible jobs and the like so it might be more susceptible to extremist movements.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 19, 2019 20:42:00 GMT
Bonn is possible to do. Stevep make a good point there on East Germany's perceived isolation too.
There were doubters at the time that the whole thing was a good idea but Berlin did work out. Maybe those voices get listened to and Bonn remains the capital yet once reunification happened, it just seemed inevitable.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Feb 21, 2019 2:28:59 GMT
It might have been better if they relocated the capital from Bonn to a place like Frankfurt or Nuremberg. Nuremberg would be more of a compromise capital to Bonn and Berlin.
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Post by Middlesex_Toffeeman on Feb 28, 2019 19:49:24 GMT
It might have been better if they relocated the capital from Bonn to a place like Frankfurt or Nuremberg. Nuremberg would be more of a compromise capital to Bonn and Berlin. Nuremberg had massive associations with Hitler's Germany. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Feb 28, 2019 20:33:57 GMT
And that is the main kick in the groin. Aachenmight be more appropriate, though the distance would also be an issue.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 28, 2019 22:05:02 GMT
And that is the main kick in the groin. Aachenmight be more appropriate, though the distance would also be an issue.
Frankfurt might be an option as it was the designated capital during the 1848 liberal revolutions but then its pretty much as far west as Bonn so why move it? Aachen is even further west and as the former capital of a unified western empire under Charlemagne it could send the wrong signs to German neighbours.
Fully agree that Nuremberg or Munich for that factor are unlikely to be a good choice because of the links with the Nazis.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2019 3:14:25 GMT
The vote was narrow and OTL many Bonn Republic politicians were terrified of Berlin's Kaiserreich, Nazi and wartime associations, so its plausible that a neo-Nazi/neo-fascist parade or rant about the glories of Berlin at the wrong moment could cause a Western or media backlash that flips the vote. So.. butterflies aside, how does reunited Germany fare ruled from the banks of the Rhine? From a Quora post Why was Bonn chosen as capital of West Germany?The criteria for the West German seat of government were: * not an occupied city * not too close to a border or in an otherwise potentially dangerous position * support from the city for the construction of parliament buildings, ministries * availability of many offices for the use of the members of parliament The following cities applied: Bonn Frankfurt am Main Kassel Stuttgart Kassel was too close to a border between the occupation zones and also too heavily damaged by war. Stuttgart was unable to afford hosting the government. So it became a decision between Frankfurt and Bonn. The SPD was in favour of Frankfurt, the CDU/CSU (including chancellor Adenauer who lived near there) was in favour of Bonn. There were some members of the CDU/CSU who would have voted for Frankfurt, but Adenauer convinced them by implying it would be a big defeat of their party if Frankfurt was chosen. Also, there were a lot of bribes going around in favour of Bonn. In the end, Bonn won. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 1, 2019 7:36:07 GMT
Stuttgart would have been a good selection though. About Nuremberg, it was also associated with the Nuremberg War Crimes trials as well, so that seems to have redeemed its reputation as a place associated with Hitler.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 1, 2019 12:10:24 GMT
The vote was narrow and OTL many Bonn Republic politicians were terrified of Berlin's Kaiserreich, Nazi and wartime associations, so its plausible that a neo-Nazi/neo-fascist parade or rant about the glories of Berlin at the wrong moment could cause a Western or media backlash that flips the vote. So.. butterflies aside, how does reunited Germany fare ruled from the banks of the Rhine? From a Quora post Why was Bonn chosen as capital of West Germany?The criteria for the West German seat of government were: * not an occupied city * not too close to a border or in an otherwise potentially dangerous position * support from the city for the construction of parliament buildings, ministries * availability of many offices for the use of the members of parliament The following cities applied: Bonn Frankfurt am Main Kassel Stuttgart Kassel was too close to a border between the occupation zones and also too heavily damaged by war. Stuttgart was unable to afford hosting the government. So it became a decision between Frankfurt and Bonn. The SPD was in favour of Frankfurt, the CDU/CSU (including chancellor Adenauer who lived near there) was in favour of Bonn. There were some members of the CDU/CSU who would have voted for Frankfurt, but Adenauer convinced them by implying it would be a big defeat of their party if Frankfurt was chosen. Also, there were a lot of bribes going around in favour of Bonn. In the end, Bonn won.
Also one of the comments mentions that Bonn was always the provisional capital of west Germany and Berlin the de jure capital, which I never realised. Apparently some people thought that if Frankfurt was chosen it would be too good as a permanent capital and that the west would be seen to have given up on German reunification so the smaller Bonn gained some support for that reason as well. This was a comment so may not be totally accurate but does sound like another issue to consider.
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mullauna
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Post by mullauna on Mar 1, 2019 12:45:03 GMT
Also, in 1949, few Germans believed that Berlin would be as close to the Eastern border as it now was under the 1945 settlement. Bonn still thought in its heart that Silesia was German land etc.
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perkeo
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Post by perkeo on Mar 4, 2019 11:27:16 GMT
I see no short term effects. The political system is essentially West Germany with the PDS (formerly SED, in the 2000s renamed DieLinke) as an additional party in the east.
In the long, the government staying in Bonn will be one more great humiliation to the East Germans and slow down the economic and social unification even further. Probably no new problems, but the existing ones getting worse.
Frankfurt would be different. It was the seat of what little federal institutions Germany had prior to 1866 and was the seat of the first German federal parliament in 1848/49.
Nürnberg, being the former capital of the Nazi movement, is not an option.
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mullauna
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Post by mullauna on Mar 4, 2019 12:28:28 GMT
The Nazi party was founded in Munich. Its official HQ remained there even through the dictatorship. The term "Nazi" originated as an insult for stupid Bavarians.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 4, 2019 12:36:20 GMT
The Nazi party was founded in Munich. Its official HQ remained there even through the dictatorship. The term "Nazi" originated as an insult for stupid Bavarians. Seems you are right, never knew that: Nazi – an insult in use long before the rise of Adolf Hitler's party. It was a derogatory term for a backwards peasant – being a shortened version of Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the party's title Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, to the dismissive "Nazi" |
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perkeo
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Post by perkeo on Mar 5, 2019 10:59:08 GMT
The Nazi party was founded in Munich. Its official HQ remained there even through the dictatorship. The term "Nazi" originated as an insult for stupid Bavarians. My mistake. Nevertheless, having been the location of the Reichsparteitag, Nürnberg is still even more burned than Berlin as a politically correct German capital. I wonder if West Germany will try to compensate the humiliation with other symbolic gestures, like the national anthem, which was shortly afterwards decided to be West German only even though it was perfectly possible - and indeed proposed - to use the text of the former East German anthem with the West German melody as the first stanza, and what is now the official text as the second. |
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