Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 20, 2018 21:53:11 GMT
He'd be pretty damn impressed that even today, Disney is indisputably a top player in the entertainment industry. Statista reports that it was ranked as the most powerful brand in the world in 2018, and joint-fourth on the list of most reputable companies. It also generated over 55 billion USD in revenue last year, among other facts and figures that are bound to wow Walt and the rest of his crew. On a separate note, there's also the inevitability that sooner or later, downtimer netizens will learn about today's other STEM-advancements. I wonder, for example, what they'd make of the information presented in this Gartner.com video about the top 10 technology trends for 2019:
Do we not need to fear for a overload of all things the Down timers will see, will we not frighten them with everything that for us in the present is considered normal. I'm sorry @lordroel, but I didn't quite understand what you meant to say. Are you implying that we should be careful about how much future-stuff we show to the downtimers?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 20, 2018 21:54:04 GMT
Do we not need to fear for a overload of all things the Down timers will see, will we not frighten them with everything that for us in the present is considered normal. I'm sorry @lordroel, but I didn't quite understand what you meant to say. Are you implying that we should be careful about how much future-stuff we show to the downtimers?
Yes because we could scare them away if we show to much at the same time, ore am i wrong to assume that. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 20, 2018 22:17:05 GMT
I'm sorry @lordroel, but I didn't quite understand what you meant to say. Are you implying that we should be careful about how much future-stuff we show to the downtimers?
Yes because we could scare them away if we show to much at the same time, ore am i wrong to assume that.
I suspect its likely that information, especially if it came too fast and in too much detail could be extremely disruptive of down-time cultures. Many might be frightened/angered by what they see while the more pragmatic would argue 'this is the future so which we can possibly tweak things a bit we have to go this way' while others who see something to benefit from the up-timer society would be more likely to be in favour.
As they say when a considerably more advanced culture comes into contact with a less advanced one [depending on how you define more and less advanced], even when the more advanced one means well its often very destructive for the less advanced society.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 20, 2018 22:24:52 GMT
I'm sorry @lordroel, but I didn't quite understand what you meant to say. Are you implying that we should be careful about how much future-stuff we show to the downtimers?
Yes because we could scare them away if we show to much at the same time, ore am i wrong to assume that. I suppose that's fair; at the least, it's reasonable to say that downtimers will be overwhelmed by how much the uptimers are progressing technologically. A great deal of that could also stem from their unawareness of the out-of-public-eye innovation taking place in their own time, but still. And it'll be interesting to see how pre-21st Century authorities respond to the knowledge of what's in store for the future, no doubt. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 20, 2018 22:38:48 GMT
Yes because we could scare them away if we show to much at the same time, ore am i wrong to assume that.
I suspect its likely that information, especially if it came too fast and in too much detail could be extremely disruptive of down-time cultures. Many might be frightened/angered by what they see while the more pragmatic would argue 'this is the future so which we can possibly tweak things a bit we have to go this way' while others who see something to benefit from the up-timer society would be more likely to be in favour.
As they say when a considerably more advanced culture comes into contact with a less advanced one [depending on how you define more and less advanced], even when the more advanced one means well its often very destructive for the less advanced society.
Any specific ideas on what the resulting butterflies would be, stevep? For 1930s and '40s, maybe '50s downtimers in the US, I predict the formation of something similar to the Movement For Traditional America from AH.com's As One Star Sets, Another Rises TL. I also speculate that some societies will engage in downright Ludditism, i.e. mid-century social conservatives calling for greater restrictions on online usage/content or unionized industrial areas being reluctant to accept automation. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 21, 2018 8:55:57 GMT
I suspect its likely that information, especially if it came too fast and in too much detail could be extremely disruptive of down-time cultures. Many might be frightened/angered by what they see while the more pragmatic would argue 'this is the future so which we can possibly tweak things a bit we have to go this way' while others who see something to benefit from the up-timer society would be more likely to be in favour.
As they say when a considerably more advanced culture comes into contact with a less advanced one [depending on how you define more and less advanced], even when the more advanced one means well its often very destructive for the less advanced society.
Any specific ideas on what the resulting butterflies would be, stevep ? For 1930s and '40s, maybe '50s downtimers in the US, I predict the formation of something similar to the Movement For Traditional America from AH.com's As One Star Sets, Another Rises TL. I also speculate that some societies will engage in downright Ludditism, i.e. mid-century social conservatives calling for greater restrictions on online usage/content or unionized industrial areas being reluctant to accept automation.
Very likely those sorts of things will occur. Possibly also at least at 1st most political leaders will feel imperiled to support such actions which will cause concern/anger in those who favour adopting new ideas and increased tension between the two, along with probably some interesting legal cases between the two categories. Also people who currently lose out, such as racial groups, women and homosexuals are likely to push the case for equal rights knowing they can succeed while those who oppose such reforms will be more determined to block them so things could get markedly more violent.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 21, 2018 15:48:37 GMT
Any specific ideas on what the resulting butterflies would be, stevep ? For 1930s and '40s, maybe '50s downtimers in the US, I predict the formation of something similar to the Movement For Traditional America from AH.com's As One Star Sets, Another Rises TL. I also speculate that some societies will engage in downright Ludditism, i.e. mid-century social conservatives calling for greater restrictions on online usage/content or unionized industrial areas being reluctant to accept automation.
Very likely those sorts of things will occur. Possibly also at least at 1st most political leaders will feel imperiled to support such actions which will cause concern/anger in those who favour adopting new ideas and increased tension between the two, along with probably some interesting legal cases between the two categories. Also people who currently lose out, such as racial groups, women and homosexuals are likely to push the case for equal rights knowing they can succeed while those who oppose such reforms will be more determined to block them so things could get markedly more violent.
Perhaps in the event of an ISOT, they'll have to make exceptions for sent-back states or regions of the future US. If '50s America tried to take control of the 21st Century West Coast's TV, internet and Silicon Valley, the results could get...ugly, to say the least. And, of course, progress-stifling legislation won't apply to other countries that get sent back (i.e. Canada or New Zealand), so people living there won't have to fret over downtimer authorities threatening their way of life (anymore than the ISOT already has, anyway). |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 21, 2018 16:55:06 GMT
I wonder how downtimers would behave if they had a presence on today's web forums. Post-Civil Rights members wouldn't be (as much) of a potential problem, but pre-Civil Rights ones could create a far more toxic atmosphere.
I can already see online communities in which uptimer/downtimer circlejerks form, though the former would appear first; it'd take a while before enough pre-Information Age people have internet access, after all.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 21, 2018 17:08:40 GMT
I can already see online communities in which uptimer/downtimer circlejerks form, though the former would appear first; it'd take a while before enough pre-Information Age people have internet access, after all. Ore it taking time for down timers to learn how to use internet. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 21, 2018 17:30:42 GMT
I can already see online communities in which uptimer/downtimer circlejerks form, though the former would appear first; it'd take a while before enough pre-Information Age people have internet access, after all. Ore it taking time for down timers to learn how to use internet. True. I suppose that as long as that's taking place, this book will be a useful guide for them: Yeah, these sorts of guides should start flying off the shelves once the downtimers get over the initial shock and awe of the ISOT.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 22, 2018 0:19:56 GMT
Very likely those sorts of things will occur. Possibly also at least at 1st most political leaders will feel imperiled to support such actions which will cause concern/anger in those who favour adopting new ideas and increased tension between the two, along with probably some interesting legal cases between the two categories. Also people who currently lose out, such as racial groups, women and homosexuals are likely to push the case for equal rights knowing they can succeed while those who oppose such reforms will be more determined to block them so things could get markedly more violent.
Perhaps in the event of an ISOT, they'll have to make exceptions for sent-back states or regions of the future US. If '50s America tried to take control of the 21st Century West Coast's TV, internet and Silicon Valley, the results could get...ugly, to say the least. And, of course, progress-stifling legislation won't apply to other countries that get sent back (i.e. Canada or New Zealand), so people living there won't have to fret over downtimer authorities threatening their way of life (anymore than the ISOT already has, anyway).
In the WUSA and EUSA split discussed elsewhere I can't see the modern WUSA tolerating interference like that at all. Both on grounds of protecting their values and because the modern internet is so important to them economically with so much else depending on it. Another problem would be if the EUSA tried to impose export controls on such technology to stop other powers, even allies getting access to it.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 22, 2018 1:34:11 GMT
Perhaps in the event of an ISOT, they'll have to make exceptions for sent-back states or regions of the future US. If '50s America tried to take control of the 21st Century West Coast's TV, internet and Silicon Valley, the results could get...ugly, to say the least. And, of course, progress-stifling legislation won't apply to other countries that get sent back (i.e. Canada or New Zealand), so people living there won't have to fret over downtimer authorities threatening their way of life (anymore than the ISOT already has, anyway).
In the WUSA and EUSA split discussed elsewhere I can't see the modern WUSA tolerating interference like that at all. Both on grounds of protecting their values and because the modern internet is so important to them economically with so much else depending on it. Another problem would be if the EUSA tried to impose export controls on such technology to stop other powers, even allies getting access to it.
I agree. What sorts of regulations would EUSA try to impose on WUSA, do you think? I imagine that downtimer legislators would be divided over how to respond to the uptimers' arrival and set of demands they'd make shortly after.
Of course, WUSA could just ignore legislation that it doesn't like (much to Washington's astonishment), and also threaten not to provide uptimer technology, financing and/or some other invaluable resource(s) to EUSA if they don't enact the necessary reforms ASAP. The uptimers should also opt for certain exemptions from federal jurisdiction, too; 21st Century lawmakers who consider NASA's 1969 computers state-of-the-art, for example, have no business regulating what Silicon Valley does-- period.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 22, 2018 13:04:00 GMT
In the WUSA and EUSA split discussed elsewhere I can't see the modern WUSA tolerating interference like that at all. Both on grounds of protecting their values and because the modern internet is so important to them economically with so much else depending on it. Another problem would be if the EUSA tried to impose export controls on such technology to stop other powers, even allies getting access to it.
I agree. What sorts of regulations would EUSA try to impose on WUSA, do you think? I imagine that downtimer legislators would be divided over how to respond to the uptimers' arrival and set of demands they'd make shortly after.
Of course, WUSA could just ignore legislation that it doesn't like (much to Washington's astonishment), and also threaten not to provide uptimer technology, financing and/or some other invaluable resource(s) to EUSA if they don't enact the necessary reforms ASAP. The uptimers should also opt for certain exemptions from federal jurisdiction, too; 21st Century lawmakers who consider NASA's 1969 computers state-of-the-art, for example, have no business regulating what Silicon Valley does-- period.
Well there would be concerns by more conservative elements especially about access to knowledge about 'historical' for the 2006 people anyway, events and also access to things like porn on the internet, and hence possibly the internet as a whole. Most likely is a desire to keep such computing capacity - especially that but other things as well - confined to the US.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 22, 2018 13:56:59 GMT
I agree. What sorts of regulations would EUSA try to impose on WUSA, do you think? I imagine that downtimer legislators would be divided over how to respond to the uptimers' arrival and set of demands they'd make shortly after.
Of course, WUSA could just ignore legislation that it doesn't like (much to Washington's astonishment), and also threaten not to provide uptimer technology, financing and/or some other invaluable resource(s) to EUSA if they don't enact the necessary reforms ASAP. The uptimers should also opt for certain exemptions from federal jurisdiction, too; 21st Century lawmakers who consider NASA's 1969 computers state-of-the-art, for example, have no business regulating what Silicon Valley does-- period.
Well there would be concerns by more conservative elements especially about access to knowledge about 'historical' for the 2006 people anyway, events and also access to things like porn on the internet, and hence possibly the internet as a whole. Most likely is a desire to keep such computing capacity - especially that but other things as well - confined to the US.
Oh, those conservative elements would flip out if they got a glimpse of what's available on today's WWW. But in practice, what could they really do about it? WUSA won't let downtimer authorities take control of its technology, and I'm not sure how EUSA would approach regulating it without potentially violating the uptimers' civil liberties. And, as I've said before, pre-21st Century lawmakers are unqualified to pass such legislation anyway, which I bet WUSA would quickly point out as well. However, I also imagine that there'd be hearings in which those same lawmakers question uptimer tech executives and professionals about what the technologies are and how they work. Moreover, how would those conservative elements respond to WUSA's defiance of Washington's orders? They'd fume about it in private, no doubt. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 22, 2018 15:59:34 GMT
Well there would be concerns by more conservative elements especially about access to knowledge about 'historical' for the 2006 people anyway, events and also access to things like porn on the internet, and hence possibly the internet as a whole. Most likely is a desire to keep such computing capacity - especially that but other things as well - confined to the US.
Oh, those conservative elements would flip out if they got a glimpse of what's available on today's WWW. But in practice, what could they really do about it? WUSA won't let downtimer authorities take control of its technology, and I'm not sure how EUSA would approach regulating it without potentially violating the uptimers' civil liberties. And, as I've said before, pre-21st Century lawmakers are unqualified to pass such legislation anyway, which I bet WUSA would quickly point out as well. However, I also imagine that there'd be hearings in which those same lawmakers question uptimer tech executives and professionals about what the technologies are and how they work. Moreover, how would those conservative elements respond to WUSA's defiance of Washington's orders? They'd fume about it in private, no doubt.
That would be the big issue on this and other matters. EUSA would be angry, with some calling it treason whereas WUSA would be angry with some [many?] saying you have no right to dictator to us.
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