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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 14:48:41 GMT
That might occur in the future, but in the early 1960s, supplies are provided through more prosaic means - smuggling is far less problematic than extensive special operations. They are also less open to interdiction by land and air forces; although the Portuguese don't have a large navy in general, let alone in their colonies, they do have patrol aircraft and sizeable forces of the Exército Colonial in Angola.
Even if it came off initially, then it would arouse the attentions of the Royal Navy and the Royal South African Navy.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 14:49:40 GMT
Even if it came off initially, then it would arouse the attentions of the Royal Navy and the Royal South African Navy. Something the Soviet Union wants to avoid. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 15:14:31 GMT
Exactly. Provoking open conflict isn't in their interests, but by the process of continuing to apply pressure on the Portuguese, just as they are pressuring the Spanish, as the weakest remaining colonial powers in Africa. By 1965, the Swedes are out, the Italians are out, the Belgians are out. Britain and France are too well positioned and powerful at this time, but shifting power patterns in the latter half of the 1960s will change that.
France will probably move to some form of nominal self-government/home rule in West Africa so it can focus all of its forces and efforts on Algeria, although they will continue to try and make use of West African military manpower.
For Britain, the Gold Coast is furthest along the path to independence, perhaps by 1969, with Nigeria, Cameroon and the Ivory Coast to follow by the mid 1970s; Sierra Leone is not scheduled for any change of status at this time. In East Africa, Uganda, Tanganyika and Sudan are projected as becoming independent within the next 15-20 years; Zanzibar is not projected as changing in status.
The British plans for a British East African Federation and a British West African Federation are hitting some obstacles.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 15:17:57 GMT
Exactly. Provoking open conflict isn't in their interests, but by the process of continuing to apply pressure on the Portuguese, just as they are pressuring the Spanish, as the weakest remaining colonial powers in Africa. By 1965, the Swedes are out, the Italians are out, the Belgians are out. Britain and France are too well positioned and powerful at this time, but shifting power patterns in the latter half of the 1960s will change that. France will probably move to some form of nominal self-government/home rule in West Africa so it can focus all of its forces and efforts on Algeria, although they will continue to try and make use of West African military manpower. For Britain, the Gold Coast is furthest along the path to independence, perhaps by 1969, with Nigeria, Cameroon and the Ivory Coast to follow by the mid 1970s; Sierra Leone is not scheduled for any change of status at this time. In East Africa, Uganda, Tanganyika and Sudan are projected as becoming independent within the next 15-20 years; Zanzibar is not projected as changing in status. The British plans for a British East African Federation and a British West African Federation are hitting some obstacles. Tanganyika would be OTL Tanzania i presume. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 15:37:40 GMT
It is the historical British League of Nations mandate, here governed as a Crown Colony ever since it was annexed in 1916. Zanzibar is separate.
The primary obstacle to an East African Federation is that the independent Dominion of Kenya has a much larger and more powerful white minority which currently rules it, whilst Uganda and Tanganyika have much smaller white populations.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 16:00:13 GMT
It is the historical British League of Nations mandate, here governed as a Crown Colony ever since it was annexed in 1916. Zanzibar is separate. The primary obstacle to an East African Federation is that the independent Dominion of Kenya has a much larger and more powerful white minority which currently rules it, whilst Uganda and Tanganyika have much smaller white populations. So do the Tanganyika Rifles exist in larger numbers than OTL. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 16:12:29 GMT
It does not exist, as that was the sole regiment of the Army of independent Tanganyika in @. At this point, the local garrison is drawn from the King's African Rifles.
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 16:28:16 GMT
It does not exist, as that was the sole regiment of the Army of independent Tanganyika in @. At this point, the local garrison is drawn from the King's African Rifles. A okay, and that would be the: |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 16:45:47 GMT
The colonial regiment for British East Africa, with four battalions based in Tanganyika, four in Uganda and four in Kenya as of 1965.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 15, 2020 16:49:11 GMT
The colonial regiment for British East Africa, with four battalions based in Tanganyika, four in Uganda and four in Kenya as of 1965. Seems i only had to check the first post on the thread where you posted the entire British Orbat. Tanganyika2nd Cameronians 8th King’s African Rifles 9th King’s African Rifles 10th King’s African Rifles 47th Royal Tank Regiment: 64 Sabre ACR, 32 Stag APC, 8 x 25pdr Abbot SPG 116 RHA: 32 x 25pdr Abbot SPG 1st Zulu Rifles |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 15, 2020 16:53:13 GMT
Yes, there have been some natural changes in deployments between 1961 and 1965 and the results of the 1961 Defence White Paper, but the general substance is similar.
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 16, 2020 12:54:48 GMT
Looking back at Kenya's order of battle, which somewhat slipped to the wayside in the discussion of Rhodesia, we can see a few things:
- Similar to Rhodesia and South Africa, the Kenyan Army has one 'medium' and one 'light' division. The former has a contingency role for operations in the Middle East, whilst the latter is very much focused on Africa.
- Most active deployments and operations in Kenya and the Congo are carried out on the battalion level.
- HMS Kenya is very much too large a vessel for such a small navy and has what amounts to a skeleton crew and is used for dockside training in Mombasa.
- Whilst the Mau Mau Rebellion was crushed, there are still Soviet-backed rebels in the west of Kenya.
- In terms of fighters and bombers, Kenya has the best air force in Africa between Rhodesia and Egypt, but are primarily focused on counter-insurgency or rotational deployments to the RAF Middle East Air Force bases in Suez.
- The Hunters, Swifts and Canberras were all transferred from the RAF for free in 1962/63 as RAF Africa drew down.
- The Kenyan Armed Forces would serve as the centre of any wider East African force.
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Post by lordroel on Feb 16, 2020 12:59:11 GMT
- HMS Kenya is very much too large a vessel for such a small navy and has what amounts to a skeleton crew and is used for dockside training in Mombasa. So why does Kenya have such a larger ship then, is it pride. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 16, 2020 14:15:41 GMT
It is simply a prestige vessel, allowing the RKN to train up recruits over the next decade.
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 13:53:01 GMT
Question, does the Women's Royal Army Corps, Women's Royal Air Force and Women's Royal Naval Service exist in the Dark Earth verse.
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