lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 3:59:52 GMT
That could well be useful. With regard to the Timeline, there is a lot in there beyond the first few days of each month; taking some time to collate a few comments can result in greater depth of replies. But still would have love to have seen a Argentina v Britain clash, ore maybe we can see a Argentina v Chile war, but i doubt that would be allowed by the big powers. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 4:04:01 GMT
Why?
As said, Argentina and Britain are effectively allied, with the difference in 'weight category' being on a level of the @ 1980s USA taking on 1950s Peru, or Mike Tyson against a toddler. One side has intercontinental bombers, ICBMs, nuclear submarines, CVNs, thousands of advanced aircraft, space based weapons and thousands upon thousands of nuclear weapons, among other capacities.
Argentina vs Chile wouldn't be happening outside of a general world war.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 9:25:11 GMT
To look at some comparisons:
RN Earth 1982
3 Aircraft Carriers
14 Destroyers
53 Frigates
9 Patrol Vessels
10 Amphibs
31 Submarines (4 SSBN, 11 SSN, 16 SSK)
46 Minesweepers
Argentine Navy Earth 1982
1 Aircraft Carrier
1 Cruiser
6 Destroyers
3 Corvettes
2 Submarines
2 Amphibs
RN DE 1972
20 Battleships
34 Aircraft Carriers (15 Fleet, 12 Light, 7 Escort)
48 Cruisers
136 Destroyers
228 Frigates
150 Corvettes
48 Patrol Vessels/Sloops
123 Amphibs
130 Submarines (20 SSBN, 54 SSN, 56 SSK)
328 Minesweepers
Argentine Navy DE 1972
3 Battleships
3 Aircraft Carriers
9 Cruisers
29 Destroyers
20 Frigates
10 Submarines
12 Amphibs
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 15:06:03 GMT
To look at some comparisons: RN Earth 1982 3 Aircraft Carriers 14 Destroyers 53 Frigates 9 Patrol Vessels 10 Amphibs 31 Submarines (4 SSBN, 11 SSN, 16 SSK) 46 Minesweepers Argentine Navy Earth 1982 1 Aircraft Carrier 1 Cruiser 6 Destroyers 3 Corvettes 2 Submarines 2 Amphibs RN DE 1972 20 Battleships 34 Aircraft Carriers (15 Fleet, 12 Light, 7 Escort) 48 Cruisers 136 Destroyers 228 Frigates 150 Corvettes 48 Patrol Vessels/Sloops 123 Amphibs 130 Submarines (20 SSBN, 54 SSN, 56 SSK) 328 Minesweepers Argentine Navy DE 1972 3 Battleships 3 Aircraft Carriers 9 Cruisers 29 Destroyers 20 Frigates 10 Submarines 12 Amphibs Thanks as always for answering my questions, even if they might be (read and find the answer) answers. Seems OTL 1983 Britain would face a hard time against DE Argentinia, also as i assume they have a much larger air force and Naval air force than OTL. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 15:52:27 GMT
They absolutely would, but that would be an Argentine shorn of its suppliers and markets. Frontline weapons are flashy, but not so much when they are out of ammunition. What separates DE Argentina from the next level up, or the real regional powers like Japan and Germany, is that the latter have their supply chain and reserves sorted.
I’m putting something together on US and British arms manufacturing and what comes from where; the US not only has advantages of scale, but is much more spread out.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 15:54:46 GMT
\ I’m putting something together on US and British arms manufacturing and what comes from where; the US not only has advantages of scale, but is much more spread out. Is the Soviet Union also a big seller of weapons. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 16:10:46 GMT
No, not as large as @. They lack the markets. Historically, they had the Middle East trio of Egypt, Syria and Iraq; the various newly independent countries, socialist republics and dictatorships of Africa (much less scope/scale, except for maybe Libya) and India.
In DE, they don’t have India, obviously, nor is Africa as ‘open’, given the long shadow of the colonial thumb. Egypt absolutely won’t even look at the Soviets sideways, whilst Iraq and Syria have dabbled with a few smaller orders, but the nature of their governments precludes anything like @. Additionally, Korea and Vietnam hasn’t been kind to the reputation of Soviet weapons systems. Offsetting this is Indonesia, but they only go so far.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 16:19:00 GMT
Offsetting this is Indonesia, but they only go so far. Is it the modern stuff ore the export version stuff. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 16:33:02 GMT
It is everything they can offload, up to mid 1960s weapons and aircraft; the USSR gives itself priority on newer systems, as in @.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 16:36:45 GMT
It is everything they can offload, up to mid 1960s weapons and aircraft; the USSR gives itself priority on newer systems, as in @. That includes the Warsaw Pact as well i assume, compared to the Soviet forces destroyed there. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 16:40:04 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2024 16:42:26 GMT
Yes. Poland, the GDR/East Prussia and Romania produce their copies of Soviet tanks et al partly domestically. Are they allowed to produce better version than what the Soviet Union. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 22:34:26 GMT
There is no overt prohibition, but it is 1973. At this point, both in @ and DE, they are all on T-55s, with T-72s replacing those. The only time there was a real improved variant was the PT-91, post Cold War.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 12, 2024 22:47:56 GMT
There is no overt prohibition, but it is 1973. At this point, both in @ and DE, they are all on T-55s, with T-72s replacing those. The only time there was a real improved variant was the PT-91, post Cold War.
Wasn't the Soviet's main tank by then the T-62 with a few of the more advanced T-64? At least in OTL. Would expect that probably still quite a number of T-55's about but the T-62 was introduced in 1961 so by 1973 you should have a fair number in service.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2024 22:56:37 GMT
The T-62 saw very limited exports, and the T-64/T-80 even fewer. The T-72 was the successor to the T-54/55 series as the 'mass general purpose MBT'.
The Soviets chose in @ to keep their satellites just that little bit beneath the capability of the Red Army.
In DE, the Red Army has the T-64 and, increasingly, the T-72 as its pair of frontline tanks, plus the T-68 heavy MBT.
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