stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 7, 2018 17:41:19 GMT
Ah those do look to be in Bulgarian, although close to the border so they could be tactical strikes to hit at forces invading east Thrace. [Either that or in the general chaos some of the Soviet strikes are some way off target, which is unlikely but not totally impossible].
But who might want to invade Bulgaria, except Turkey the Black Sea is a giant Soviet Lake.
Sorry I think we're at cross-purposes here? I was assuming that, other than an extreme case of poor targeting, those were nuclear counter strikes by NATO against invading WP forces.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 7, 2018 18:18:00 GMT
But who might want to invade Bulgaria, except Turkey the Black Sea is a giant Soviet Lake. Sorry I think we're at cross-purposes here? I was assuming that, other than an extreme case of poor targeting, those were nuclear counter strikes by NATO against invading WP forces.
But if i read it right you said in previous post that beachhead was in Bulgaria, ore am i wrong. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 8, 2018 10:44:30 GMT
Sorry I think we're at cross-purposes here? I was assuming that, other than an extreme case of poor targeting, those were nuclear counter strikes by NATO against invading WP forces.
But if i read it right you said in previous post that beachhead was in Bulgaria, ore am i wrong.
Duh, sorry, so fixated with the nukes I forgot you mentioned a beachhead. I would suspect in that case I have misread the map and its a part of Turkish E Thrace where a pocked of bypassed Turkish units has been formed and the Soviets are using the nukes to destroy them, or at least make them militarily irrelevant. [Although looking at an atlas it does look rather like that pockets in Bulgaria so rather confusing. Suppose it might even be Soviet mis-information as they always used to present their planned offensives as defensive responses to western 'attacks' and their pretending there's a Turkish/American attack into Bulgaria to which their responding? Although whether they would actually use such claims in their formal invasion plans and how effectively those would be believed I don't know?]
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 8, 2018 10:48:51 GMT
But if i read it right you said in previous post that beachhead was in Bulgaria, ore am i wrong. Duh, sorry, so fixated with the nukes I forgot you mentioned a beachhead. I would suspect in that case I have misread the map and its a part of Turkish E Thrace where a pocked of bypassed Turkish units has been formed and the Soviets are using the nukes to destroy them, or at least make them militarily irrelevant. [Although looking at an atlas it does look rather like that pockets in Bulgaria so rather confusing. Suppose it might even be Soviet mis-information as they always used to present their planned offensives as defensive responses to western 'attacks' and their pretending there's a Turkish/American attack into Bulgaria to which their responding? Although whether they would actually use such claims in their formal invasion plans and how effectively those would be believed I don't know?]
If you look at Map I then you will also see the marking 11A, is this near Map II 11A marking, looking at both maps it looks like it. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 8, 2018 14:37:22 GMT
Duh, sorry, so fixated with the nukes I forgot you mentioned a beachhead. I would suspect in that case I have misread the map and its a part of Turkish E Thrace where a pocked of bypassed Turkish units has been formed and the Soviets are using the nukes to destroy them, or at least make them militarily irrelevant. [Although looking at an atlas it does look rather like that pockets in Bulgaria so rather confusing. Suppose it might even be Soviet mis-information as they always used to present their planned offensives as defensive responses to western 'attacks' and their pretending there's a Turkish/American attack into Bulgaria to which their responding? Although whether they would actually use such claims in their formal invasion plans and how effectively those would be believed I don't know?]
If you look at Map I then you will also see the marking 11A, is this near Map II 11A marking, looking at both maps it looks like it.
True. Could it be a typo for 11A i.e. 11th Army, as there is a 10A nearby? Would suggest their Soviet or Bulgarian or just possibly other WP units involved in the drive south.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 8, 2018 14:52:18 GMT
If you look at Map I then you will also see the marking 11A, is this near Map II 11A marking, looking at both maps it looks like it. True. Could it be a typo for 11A i.e. 11th Army, as there is a 10A nearby? Would suggest their Soviet or Bulgarian or just possibly other WP units involved in the drive south.
Do not think it is the Soviet 11th Army, it was disbanded in 1943. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 9, 2018 10:05:07 GMT
True. Could it be a typo for 11A i.e. 11th Army, as there is a 10A nearby? Would suggest their Soviet or Bulgarian or just possibly other WP units involved in the drive south.
Do not think it is the Soviet 11th Army, it was disbanded in 1943.
Well that's either a total addition to the Red Army's Orbat or some good googling skills.  Might be that something else is assumed to be given a name or an allied, i.e. Bulgarian unit or possibly it means something totally different. Very much groping for an answer here. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 9, 2018 10:19:57 GMT
Do not think it is the Soviet 11th Army, it was disbanded in 1943. Well that's either a total addition to the Red Army's Orbat or some good googling skills. Might be that something else is assumed to be given a name or an allied, i.e. Bulgarian unit or possibly it means something totally different. Very much groping for an answer here. There might be this one, the 11th Guards Army (Soviet Union), the Bulgarians only had the 1st to 4th armies during the Cold War. So i think you are right, the mark 11A might be something different stevep. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Jun 10, 2018 17:36:24 GMT
There were Soviet Army plans to form up field armies in wartime from units assigned to military districts. These would have been historic designations with the staff posted from military district HQs retaining their own peacetime positions (commander, first deputy commander, operations officer etc.) now in wartime with a field army.
It could have been a 10th or an 11th Army; the 11th Guards Army had a Western Europe assignment.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 10, 2018 17:44:21 GMT
There were Soviet Army plans to form up field armies in wartime from units assigned to military districts. These would have been historic designations with the staff posted from military district HQs retaining their own peacetime positions (commander, first deputy commander, operations officer etc.) now in wartime with a field army. It could have been a 10th or an 11th Army; the 11th Guards Army had a Western Europe assignment. It could also be something complete different. |
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Might be that something else is assumed to be given a name or an allied, i.e. Bulgarian unit or possibly it means something totally different. Very much groping for an answer here.