forcon
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Post by forcon on Sept 22, 2019 8:00:53 GMT
IntermariumNot so much a full-fledged story idea as a setting idea. In the late 80s - early 90s the Warsaw Pact collapses much as it did IOTL, though in a somewhat more "managed" fashion. The Soviet Union does not fall, but rather liberalizes economically and (to a lesser extent) politically under the leadership of Nikolai Ryzhkov. The USSR remaining a fairly powerful and influential entity as well as good Soviet-Western relations throughout the 1990s (despite some unpleasantness in the Baltics, the Caucasus, and Yugoslavia) means that NATO does not expand beyond it's 1990 borders into the recently-liberated former Warsaw Pact nations as OTL. With no guarantee of Western protection against future Soviet aggression, Poland, Hungary, and the newly divorced Czechia and Slovakia band together under the Visegrad Pact; later Romania and Bulgaria join the nascent alliance. The Visegrad Pact functions not just as a military alliance but also an economic, cultural, and political union; by the modern day it has developed into a powerful bloc, sort of a third alternative between the EU to it's west and the USSR to it's east. Flash forward to the near-future of the 2020s, as a major crisis in the Baltic sees war break out between the Visegrad Pact and the USSR. As the first European land war of the 21st century rages in full fury, NATO attempts to contain and mediate an end to the conflict while Western Europe, already beleaguered with refugees from the War on Terror and the Arab Spring, must deal with a new refugee crisis from their Eastern neighbors. I like the sound of this. Though I'm not sure that the Visegrad Pact could gain the same level of power as the EU/NATO on military and economic levels alike, I think it could be made to work. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Sept 28, 2019 20:17:08 GMT
I have an idea for a story. The setting is that of a dystopian UK, ruled by an authoritarian government of national unity after terrorists detonate a nuclear device in the capital. The story itself is focused on a young Army officer who is tried for mutiny after refusing to fire on unarmed protestors. There isn't exactly a happy ending, with our hero ending up before a firing squad, as the death penalty has been reintroduced.
What does everyone think?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 28, 2019 20:22:47 GMT
I have an idea for a story. The setting is that of a dystopian UK, ruled by an authoritarian government of national unity after terrorists detonate a nuclear device in the capital. The story itself is focused on a young Army officer who is tried for mutiny after refusing to fire on unarmed protestors. There isn't exactly a happy ending, with our hero ending up before a firing squad, as the death penalty has been reintroduced. What does everyone think? Interesting idea to make into a TL. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Sept 29, 2019 17:02:23 GMT
I have an idea for a story. The setting is that of a dystopian UK, ruled by an authoritarian government of national unity after terrorists detonate a nuclear device in the capital. The story itself is focused on a young Army officer who is tried for mutiny after refusing to fire on unarmed protestors. There isn't exactly a happy ending, with our hero ending up before a firing squad, as the death penalty has been reintroduced. What does everyone think? Interesting idea to make into a TL. I concur. However, I'm unsure that I agree with announcing (or determining) our mutineer protagonist's final fate beforehand, though their journey and side characters that get featured might also be interesting. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 3, 2019 0:54:54 GMT
One TL idea that came to me recently involves some US Presidents, some assigned regions of the country, and a collective ISOT to the same land occupied by OTL America. I think I'll call it 'The Great GOP Quartet', and the statesmen and regions that they preside over will probably be as follows (more or less):
Dwight D. Eisenhower - East
Ronald Reagan - Midwest
George W. Bush - South
Donald Trump (or fictional, present-day POTUS) - West
And, maybe a fifth President from the future who represents one of the non-contiguous states from that time (i.e. Alaska).
That said, I wonder if I--or someone else who's interested--could write an equivalent TL featuring Democratic Presidents instead?
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 4, 2019 18:52:50 GMT
Operation Thoroughbred - the liberation of Ulster
In the late 1970s, Britain elects a Labour government which the Democratic Socialists (DemSocs) have control over. They move to impose their vision on the country once in power. This is violently opposed by failed coup to take them down. In response, the government cracks down hard - without resort to killings; just arrests & detentions - to defend democracy. Many see this as the beginning of their dictatorship as they go really far with those arrests.
Since their election, the DemSocs have been opposed by those in Ulster too. Once the DemSocs start to 'withdraw from the last of the empire' (Bermuda, Falklands, Gibraltar etc.), the Unionists/Loyalists in Ulster see the writing on the wall. The DemSocs want to withdraw troops from Northern Ireland. They are seen too as friendly towards 'the terrorists'. Ulster revolts. London withdraws in the face of this. Ulster is left in the hands of the crazies as the DemSocs refuse by their doctrine to use military force.
Ulster fast becomes a quasi-independent state which might officially still be part of the UK, but does its own thing. That includes a fascist government which disenfranchises Catholic voters and turns a blind eye to encouraged killings by Loyalist gangs. Hundreds die while London still refuses to have any part of it. Hundreds of thousands more, fearing the worst, flee to the Republic of Ireland. Ulster reacts to hints of possible Irish military action against them - a pipedream - by a show of military force. They now give the green light to even more ethnic cleansing as the vast majority of Catholics are forced out of Ulster. Real casualties remain low but the belief is that they are much higher.
Through the 80s, the fascist regime in Ulster survives while so does the socialist one in the mainland UK. The DemSocs win three general elections but their grip on power is never really that strong. Domestic protests against them gather pace. They are tested with violence and don't hit back. They will not fight their own people, only use legal means against them.
1991 sees the DemSocs go. They are voted out of office though the general election does see violence in the UK too. The Liberals - who had nothing to do with the bombings and murders - take office. They want rid of the abomination in Ulster. Over there, a decade-long terror has reigned. Few Catholics are left and the fascist government has turned its attention to its own Protestant population when protests have occurred due to the dire economic situation. Ulster is really to fall. Rather than let it all end violently, London invades.
The DemSocs ran down the UK military significantly (no NATO commitment, no nukes) but there is enough to liberate Ulster.
Thoroughbred sees Ulster fall fast as few are willing to fight for the regime. Liberating British soldiers are treated as heroes. However, there are some Loyalists who are determined to fight on and will go down the terrorist route for the foreseeable future.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 4, 2019 19:43:46 GMT
Operation Thoroughbred - the liberation of UlsterIn the late 1970s, Britain elects a Labour government which the Democratic Socialists (DemSocs) have control over. They move to impose their vision on the country once in power. This is violently opposed by failed coup to take them down. In response, the government cracks down hard - without resort to killings; just arrests & detentions - to defend democracy. Many see this as the beginning of their dictatorship as they go really far with those arrests. Since their election, the DemSocs have been opposed by those in Ulster too. Once the DemSocs start to 'withdraw from the last of the empire' (Bermuda, Falklands, Gibraltar etc.), the Unionists/Loyalists in Ulster see the writing on the wall. The DemSocs want to withdraw troops from Northern Ireland. They are seen too as friendly towards 'the terrorists'. Ulster revolts. London withdraws in the face of this. Ulster is left in the hands of the crazies as the DemSocs refuse by their doctrine to use military force. Ulster fast becomes a quasi-independent state which might officially still be part of the UK, but does its own thing. That includes a fascist government which disenfranchises Catholic voters and turns a blind eye to encouraged killings by Loyalist gangs. Hundreds die while London still refuses to have any part of it. Hundreds of thousands more, fearing the worst, flee to the Republic of Ireland. Ulster reacts to hints of possible Irish military action against them - a pipedream - by a show of military force. They now give the green light to even more ethnic cleansing as the vast majority of Catholics are forced out of Ulster. Real casualties remain low but the belief is that they are much higher. Through the 80s, the fascist regime in Ulster survives while so does the socialist one in the mainland UK. The DemSocs win three general elections but their grip on power is never really that strong. Domestic protests against them gather pace. They are tested with violence and don't hit back. They will not fight their own people, only use legal means against them. 1991 sees the DemSocs go. They are voted out of office though the general election does see violence in the UK too. The Liberals - who had nothing to do with the bombings and murders - take office. They want rid of the abomination in Ulster. Over there, a decade-long terror has reigned. Few Catholics are left and the fascist government has turned its attention to its own Protestant population when protests have occurred due to the dire economic situation. Ulster is really to fall. Rather than let it all end violently, London invades. The DemSocs ran down the UK military significantly (no NATO commitment, no nukes) but there is enough to liberate Ulster. Thoroughbred sees Ulster fall fast as few are willing to fight for the regime. Liberating British soldiers are treated as heroes. However, there are some Loyalists who are determined to fight on and will go down the terrorist route for the foreseeable future. Interesting TL idea there. Though I surmise that they'll certainly suffer in the short term, I wonder how the more right-wing elements of the UK (i.e. the Conservative Party) will fare ITTL. Somehow, I doubt that the Democratic Socialists will be fondly remembered by TTL's 2019 and thereabouts. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 5, 2019 21:37:20 GMT
Operation Thoroughbred - the liberation of UlsterIn the late 1970s, Britain elects a Labour government which the Democratic Socialists (DemSocs) have control over. They move to impose their vision on the country once in power. This is violently opposed by failed coup to take them down. In response, the government cracks down hard - without resort to killings; just arrests & detentions - to defend democracy. Many see this as the beginning of their dictatorship as they go really far with those arrests. Since their election, the DemSocs have been opposed by those in Ulster too. Once the DemSocs start to 'withdraw from the last of the empire' (Bermuda, Falklands, Gibraltar etc.), the Unionists/Loyalists in Ulster see the writing on the wall. The DemSocs want to withdraw troops from Northern Ireland. They are seen too as friendly towards 'the terrorists'. Ulster revolts. London withdraws in the face of this. Ulster is left in the hands of the crazies as the DemSocs refuse by their doctrine to use military force. Ulster fast becomes a quasi-independent state which might officially still be part of the UK, but does its own thing. That includes a fascist government which disenfranchises Catholic voters and turns a blind eye to encouraged killings by Loyalist gangs. Hundreds die while London still refuses to have any part of it. Hundreds of thousands more, fearing the worst, flee to the Republic of Ireland. Ulster reacts to hints of possible Irish military action against them - a pipedream - by a show of military force. They now give the green light to even more ethnic cleansing as the vast majority of Catholics are forced out of Ulster. Real casualties remain low but the belief is that they are much higher. Through the 80s, the fascist regime in Ulster survives while so does the socialist one in the mainland UK. The DemSocs win three general elections but their grip on power is never really that strong. Domestic protests against them gather pace. They are tested with violence and don't hit back. They will not fight their own people, only use legal means against them. 1991 sees the DemSocs go. They are voted out of office though the general election does see violence in the UK too. The Liberals - who had nothing to do with the bombings and murders - take office. They want rid of the abomination in Ulster. Over there, a decade-long terror has reigned. Few Catholics are left and the fascist government has turned its attention to its own Protestant population when protests have occurred due to the dire economic situation. Ulster is really to fall. Rather than let it all end violently, London invades. The DemSocs ran down the UK military significantly (no NATO commitment, no nukes) but there is enough to liberate Ulster. Thoroughbred sees Ulster fall fast as few are willing to fight for the regime. Liberating British soldiers are treated as heroes. However, there are some Loyalists who are determined to fight on and will go down the terrorist route for the foreseeable future. Interesting TL idea there. Though I surmise that they'll certainly suffer in the short term, I wonder how the more right-wing elements of the UK (i.e. the Conservative Party) will fare ITTL. Somehow, I doubt that the Democratic Socialists will be fondly remembered by TTL's 2019 and thereabouts. Without too much thought put into it, my thinking was that under the Labour/DemSoc rule, the Conservatives would be marginalised. The incoming Liberal government would probably incorporate much of the DemSoc social policy to be able to win. That might not be the case with the DemSocs in the future. They could return. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 5, 2019 21:50:16 GMT
State's rights and a different kind of internal US succession
I was thinking about how representation in stories of secessionism follows the pattern of right-wig states breaking away. I can think of several where it always starts with South Carolina followed by the South. They end up being the Confederacy in all but name, only with a scattering elsewhere among the interior of the country: what is often mockingly called flyover country.
What about if it was the other way around?
Let us say the Republican Party wins the 2020, 2024 & 2028 presidential elections. They have a lock-on with the Senate while the House swings back and forth; the Supreme Court stays Conservative, up to 6-3 or even 7-2 conservative-vs.-liberal. There are credible allegations that the Republicans are rigging the system to disenfranchise voters in many states. At the presidential elections, each time the Democrats win the popular vote, as much as by 10million by 2028, but the Electoral College favours the Republicans.
The president elected in 2028 is a hated demigod. His administration uses the Supreme Court and the Senate to start stripping away the rights of certain states, liberal ones whose policies are opposed to his administration. Everything is legal but those on the wrong end of it see it as illegal regardless of what their president says. These state's right are fundamental social issues but also a fudging of their national voting power... not sure how better to put that.
A succession movement starts in uber-liberal California. Other states in the West - Nevada, Oregon, Washington maybe Hawaii - go along with it. The president authorises the use of force. The reaction nationwide is manipulated with lies to blame the Western States and their leader: say CA's governor who ran for president in 2028. Eastern liberal states hate their president but will not support secessionists.
The United States splits and engages in civil war with mainly the Western States but also pockets of resistance - not state organised - elsewhere in the nation.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 5, 2019 22:48:12 GMT
State's rights and a different kind of internal US successionI was thinking about how representation in stories of secessionism follows the pattern of right-wig states breaking away. I can think of several where it always starts with South Carolina followed by the South. They end up being the Confederacy in all but name, only with a scattering elsewhere among the interior of the country: what is often mockingly called flyover country. What about if it was the other way around? Let us say the Republican Party wins the 2020, 2024 & 2028 presidential elections. They have a lock-on with the Senate while the House swings back and forth; the Supreme Court stays Conservative, up to 6-3 or even 7-2 conservative-vs.-liberal. There are credible allegations that the Republicans are rigging the system to disenfranchise voters in many states. At the presidential elections, each time the Democrats win the popular vote, as much as by 10million by 2028, but the Electoral College favours the Republicans. The president elected in 2028 is a hated demigod. His administration uses the Supreme Court and the Senate to start stripping away the rights of certain states, liberal ones whose policies are opposed to his administration. Everything is legal but those on the wrong end of it see it as illegal regardless of what their president says. These state's right are fundamental social issues but also a fudging of their national voting power... not sure how better to put that. A succession movement starts in uber-liberal California. Other states in the West - Nevada, Oregon, Washington maybe Hawaii - go along with it. The president authorises the use of force. The reaction nationwide is manipulated with lies to blame the Western States and their leader: say CA's governor who ran for president in 2028. Eastern liberal states hate their president but will not support secessionists. The United States splits and engages in civil war with mainly the Western States but also pockets of resistance - not state organised - elsewhere in the nation.
Interesting idea and it could end up very bloody. I think you mean demagogue rather than demigod. 
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 6, 2019 1:11:59 GMT
Here’s yet another TL I’ve been pondering for a while: ‘Dubya’s Do-Over’. It revolves around George W. Bush--either his current self or from just after he passes away sometime IOTL future--waking up in the body of his younger self shortly after becoming President-elect in November 2000.
With foreknowledge of the future that came to be IOTL, Bush II would little doubt work to alter the course of history as whole and keep his approval ratings higher than before along the way--namely by preventing 9/11, avoiding Middle East wars, and averting the 2008 Financial Crisis, just to name a few things he'll hope to change. Other than that, I’ve the feeling that in the long haul, some damned big changes will make TTL much different from the one we recognize.
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Oct 6, 2019 11:45:54 GMT
1) Europe's Desert Storm: the POD is a Clinton victory in the US election. Protests occur in the Baltic States in the spring of 2017, culminating in the deaths of several dozen protesters at the hands of the police. Furthermore, a US-Russia clash in Syria sees casualties on both sides but Moscow humiliated diplomatically. Eventually, to preempt what Putin sees as further NATO aggression, Russia launches a rapid invasion of the Baltic States, seizing them in seventy-two hours, before any NATO reinforcements can arrive. The Baltic armies and the NATO EFP units are quickly overrun, with several hundred casualties and thousands of POWs. This leads to several months of stand-off as NATO attempts to negotiate a Russian withdrawal from the Baltic States while building up forces to liberate them, until a NATO offensive is finally launched in the fall of 2017. The Belarusian government is brought down by an MI6 clandestine operation, and NATO forces swing through Belarus to hit the 1st Guards Tank Army in Lithuania with a gigantic 'right hook' from the south.
2) A different Desert Storm: After the Iran-Iraq War, Saddam is killed and Iraq collapses into a brief civil war. After skirmishes with US forces, Iran invades Kuwait. A tragedy occurs at the US embassy in Kuwait, when dozens of diplomatic personnel are killed. The US, Britain, France, and numerous other Coalition Allies, begin preparations to drive on Tehran.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 6, 2019 11:47:13 GMT
1) Europe's Desert Storm: the POD is a Clinton victory in the US election. Protests occur in the Baltic States in the spring of 2017, culminating in the deaths of several dozen protesters at the hands of the police. Furthermore, a US-Russia clash in Syria sees casualties on both sides but Moscow humiliated diplomatically. Eventually, to preempt what Putin sees as further NATO aggression, Russia launches a rapid invasion of the Baltic States, seizing them in seventy-two hours, before any NATO reinforcements can arrive. The Baltic armies and the NATO EFP units are quickly overrun, with several hundred casualties and thousands of POWs. This leads to several months of stand-off as NATO attempts to negotiate a Russian withdrawal from the Baltic States while building up forces to liberate them, until a NATO offensive is finally launched in the fall of 2017. The Belarusian government is brought down by an MI6 clandestine operation, and NATO forces swing through Belarus to hit the 1st Guards Tank Army in Lithuania with a gigantic 'right hook' from the south. Would that not be better named Operation Winter Storm. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2019 14:15:49 GMT
1) Europe's Desert Storm: the POD is a Clinton victory in the US election. Protests occur in the Baltic States in the spring of 2017, culminating in the deaths of several dozen protesters at the hands of the police. Furthermore, a US-Russia clash in Syria sees casualties on both sides but Moscow humiliated diplomatically. Eventually, to preempt what Putin sees as further NATO aggression, Russia launches a rapid invasion of the Baltic States, seizing them in seventy-two hours, before any NATO reinforcements can arrive. The Baltic armies and the NATO EFP units are quickly overrun, with several hundred casualties and thousands of POWs. This leads to several months of stand-off as NATO attempts to negotiate a Russian withdrawal from the Baltic States while building up forces to liberate them, until a NATO offensive is finally launched in the fall of 2017. The Belarusian government is brought down by an MI6 clandestine operation, and NATO forces swing through Belarus to hit the 1st Guards Tank Army in Lithuania with a gigantic 'right hook' from the south. 2) A different Desert Storm: After the Iran-Iraq War, Saddam is killed and Iraq collapses into a brief civil war. After skirmishes with US forces, Iran invades Kuwait. A tragedy occurs at the US embassy in Kuwait, when dozens of diplomatic personnel are killed. The US, Britain, France, and numerous other Coalition Allies, begin preparations to drive on Tehran.
Interesting ideas. I fear there's a sizeable risk of it ending with a nuclear exchange, which Russia would come out worst but it would be bad for everybody.
I think Iran would be insane to attack the allied powers but then their leadership isn't the most stable and realistic.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 28, 2019 15:54:04 GMT
To expand upon what I've already said about my still-dormant 'A Galaxy Divergent' TL--which features Darth Vader going back in time to the Prequels and veering galactic history off-course from that PoD onwards, first and foremost--I'd also like to outline what he does next, as well as expound on a general setting that will probably be heavily reimagined compared to Canon Star Wars. For starters, it'll feature the sheer scale that's appropriately vast for a galaxy-wide setting (i.e. sextillions of Clone Trooper units instead of a few million) and no humans, thereby recasting human characters as aliens ITTL. As said before, it commences with Darth Vader getting sent back in time to either The Phantom Menace or some point between then and when Attack of the Clones takes place—boasting a new cybernetic suit, lightsaber and fully restored Force potential to the point where he can basically become the ‘Dark Chosen One’ that he long sought to be.
Now a free agent determined to foil his former master’s plans and resolve his personal past, Vader probably helps his younger self and his various compatriots (namely Qui-Gon Jinn, Padme Amidala and R2-D2) out, discretely manipulating situations to his advantage and biding his time before the Separatist Crisis emerges in force. After amassing great wealth and power over the years, Vader would eventually return to recruit disgruntled populations and private interests from throughout the Galaxy to form TTL’s Separatist Alliance. Maybe he would bring Dooku aboard as official head-of-state of the newly declared Union of Confederate Systems (or UCS), which—unlike IOTL—would be a genuine separatist movement with principled commitment to classical liberalism rather than clandestine, two-faced puppeteering. Granted, Vader would be doing this more out of pragmatism than his actual beliefs--serving as Supreme Commander of the Droid Armies and becoming an indispensable advisor to the Count in general--but would seek to keep these overarching promises since he’s a) not stupid and b) not consumed by Dark-Side derangement syndrome like his master, who’s basically frothing at the mouth at this “third-Sith heretic who continually sabotages the Grand Plan”.
For those reasons, the Clone Wars would be an actual war instead of a sham bloodbath orchestrated by Darth Sidious, forcing the Republic and UCS to fight it out rather than secretly hold back so that he inherits a Galaxy that’s relatively intact for his new Empire. At the same time, the Separatists would be less morally bankrupt ITTL due to Vader’s pragmatism, and the storyline would show a far greyer and more sympathetic side to the movement than the Prequels or The Clone Wars TV series did. On the opposite side of the aisle, the Republic—growing more and more authoritarian under an increasingly desperate and angry Chancellor Palpatine—would, while still grey in some respects, become the most evil of the two factions overall. Hopefully, this would allow the UCS to pick up more support throughout the greater Galaxy, as well as win over a heavily split Mid-Rim that could further turn the tide of the conflict in their favor.
All in all, TTL’s Clone Wars—outside of the Sith machinations at play behind the scenes—would boil down to a tug of war between the Core-ward center and the outer Galaxy. On the one hand, the Republic is a liberal, cosmopolitan, crony-capitalist society governed by ivory-tower elites who sneer at the endless sextillions who live outside of the Galactic Core and a Supreme Chancellor in bed with prosperity-crushing interests and insatiable lust for power, despite his previous promises to stamp out the endless corruption. On the other, the UCS represents a classically liberal (or even libertarian) bloc that has become rich, competitive and infrastructure-developed in recent centuries thanks to laissez-faire economics throughout the Outer Rim and the like, which the Republican Core has constantly sought to tax and regulate into little more than nothingness (which they have become absolutely fed up with). As was the case IOTL Star Wars, both factions have nominally similar political leanings at first glance, though I think that the differences between the two would be more palpable—and clearly irreconcilable—ITTL. To offer an oversimplified analogy, basically imagine a second civil war between America’s Democratic states (the Galactic Republic) and its Republican ones (the UCS), and that very roughly approximates the clashing political philosophies and territorial extents of the big two factions in the context of TTL’s Clone Wars. If anyone has thoughts on my idea that they feel inclined to share, I’d like to read them. |
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