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Post by simon darkshade on Sept 28, 2021 12:29:17 GMT
It isn't a surprise whatsoever and was quite openly known. In the case of Japan, the whole forward deployment of Mace was a giveaway. In the case of the Philippines, it is simple logic when one accounts for Subic Bay + Clark AFB during the 1960s. It was more of a case of where the USA did not deploy nuclear weapons.
This didn't raise any fuss until the 1970s anti-nuclear movement gathered speed, ably assisted by the KGB towards a mutual goal.
The Kiwi decision was utterly self defeating and caused their exile from the one alliance that provided them any security and say in the world. There were never any CVN visits postulated, let alone SSBNs, which would be out of range of almost every target if they were in the vicinity of NZ. The consequence was due to the USA refusing to state whether any ships did not carry nuclear weapons, as that particular policy of ambiguity made sense for security and complicated enemy planning.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Sept 28, 2021 12:44:29 GMT
It isn't a surprise whatsoever and was quite openly known. In the case of Japan, the whole forward deployment of Mace was a giveaway. In the case of the Philippines, it is simple logic when one accounts for Subic Bay + Clark AFB during the 1960s. It was more of a case of where the USA did not deploy nuclear weapons. This didn't raise any fuss until the 1970s anti-nuclear movement gathered speed, ably assisted by the KGB towards a mutual goal. The Kiwi decision was utterly self defeating and caused their exile from the one alliance that provided them any security and say in the world. There were never any CVN visits postulated, let alone SSBNs, which would be out of range of almost every target if they were in the vicinity of NZ. The consequence was due to the USA refusing to state whether any ships did not carry nuclear weapons, as that particular policy of ambiguity made sense for security and complicated enemy planning. Since Japan did not allow nuclear weapons on its soil, the U.S. stored it in Okinawa (which was under the U.S. until 1972), Chichi Jima, and Iwo Jima (See this report: How much did Japan know?) Because these territories were under U.S. administration, it comes in the technicality that "the United States does not have nuclear weapons in Japanese soil". Even USN ships had nuclear weapons but there were a legal inch away from port. New Zealand may have been "neutral" during the Cold War but I doubt the Soviets would have spared them. I expect a Soviet boomer target Wellington, Auckland, and military bases around the two islands. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Sept 28, 2021 13:00:04 GMT
They had no pretence of neutrality up until the 1980s spasm and, as you say, that counts for nothing.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 29, 2021 15:44:38 GMT
Found this, 1958 state Civil Defense Dept. map shows areas in Washington thought to be likely targets of nuclear attack during the Cold War. The legend details the various zones of damage.  This image seems to be bunkers in the United Kingdom.  And 3 NATO de-classified maps: One for the Soviet invasion of Norway and Sweden.  One for a Soviet invasion of Italy.  One for a Soviet invasion of Spain and Portugal.  You can find them here: NATO SOVIET MILITARY CAMPAIGNS |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 8, 2021 19:10:16 GMT
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 9, 2021 4:25:37 GMT
The SS-20s closest to Mongolia can be viewed as European theatre weapons only through the most creative of interpretations.
The Siberian ones - definitely. That’s the truly worrying swing force.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Nov 9, 2021 5:06:23 GMT
These Arctic maps makes it clear the USSR is indeed closer to the United States than one thinks. Now I know how close the Pershing II can hit Moscow in a span of five minutes.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Nov 10, 2021 15:05:31 GMT
These Arctic maps makes it clear the USSR is indeed closer to the United States than one thinks. Now I know how close the Pershing II can hit Moscow in a span of five minutes. Gillan1220 you have to be careful when using maps produced by the Mercator projection. Mercator projection distorts the size of objects as the latitude increases from the Equator to the poles, where the scale becomes infinite. So, for example, Greenland and Antarctica appear much larger relative to land masses near the equator than they actually are.
In polar regions your much better of with The azimuthal equidistant projection.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 13, 2021 19:18:51 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 18, 2022 20:59:15 GMT
Good to know we will not be all killed.  |
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 20, 2022 10:48:13 GMT
Good to know we will not be all killed. "Allways look at the bright side of life.." |
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michelvan
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Post by michelvan on Feb 23, 2022 21:38:29 GMT
1960s US nuclear Warfare got to new level with Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) All out Response plan in case of nuclear war how the US military forces had to act. There allot SIOP documents available online and there chilling to read. The planners made sure to win by attacking enemy Target on list at least with three nuclear bombs ! or like documents put harmless "delivery to designated site". A standart SIOP-62 operation "Red button is push" The SRBM, MRBM, ICBM are fired first, the Bomber in air leave their waiting zone and fly to their target, Bomber on ground make Alert take off with their tankers. During 10 minute to 95 minute happen the impact of strategic missile in USSR, mostly on Air-command defence center, military commando center and Moscow. One to dispute chain of command and open gaps in soviet Air-defence system to let the bomber true. Several hours later first wave of B-58 arrive and drop there load on cities or military installation. Follow second wave of B-47 and B-52 groping 20 megaton warheads hours later. And third wave by B-52 much later, until here Moscow had "devlery" of 100 Mega tons on nuclear bombs !!! Now if Soviets were able to respond after that, US Navy SLBM would fired fourth wave on soviets targets... Over the Time each new version of SIOP got overworked and modified like process of order of attack or with concept of Counterforce and Countervalue Attacks. Counterforce was preventing strike to "disarm" the enemy so he could not or do limited attack. Countervalue was simple "pay back" in case the enemy launch all his missile and bomber to USA SAC would nuclear attack all civilian and economic target of the enemy...  |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Feb 25, 2022 16:15:47 GMT
1960s US nuclear Warfare got to new level with Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) All out Response plan in case of nuclear war how the US military forces had to act. There allot SIOP documents available online and there chilling to read. The planners made sure to win by attacking enemy Target on list at least with three nuclear bombs ! or like documents put harmless "delivery to designated site". A standart SIOP-62 operation "Red button is push" The SRBM, MRBM, ICBM are fired first, the Bomber in air leave their waiting zone and fly to their target, Bomber on ground make Alert take off with their tankers. During 10 minute to 95 minute happen the impact of strategic missile in USSR, mostly on Air-command defence center, military commando center and Moscow. One to dispute chain of command and open gaps in soviet Air-defence system to let the bomber true. Several hours later first wave of B-58 arrive and drop there load on cities or military installation. Follow second wave of B-47 and B-52 groping 20 megaton warheads hours later. And third wave by B-52 much later, until here Moscow had "devlery" of 100 Mega tons on nuclear bombs !!! Now if Soviets were able to respond after that, US Navy SLBM would fired fourth wave on soviets targets... Over the Time each new version of SIOP got overworked and modified like process of order of attack or with concept of Counterforce and Countervalue Attacks. Counterforce was preventing strike to "disarm" the enemy so he could not or do limited attack. Countervalue was simple "pay back" in case the enemy launch all his missile and bomber to USA SAC would nuclear attack all civilian and economic target of the enemy... Cute little "fact". US estimates then and now are that if the Russians launched first, about 35% of US retaliation would be destroyed. A minimum of 500 launcher systems had to survive to kill the Russians. I emphasize the word "kill", as it was assumed that the Russians, if they launched at all, would attempt CONUS annihilation without the fancy Kahn ladder rigamarole. The JFK idea of measured response only works until the first nuclear weapon hits American home soil. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2022 5:01:20 GMT
According to the Daily Star:  |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Mar 4, 2022 14:12:48 GMT
1960s US nuclear Warfare got to new level with Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP) All out Response plan in case of nuclear war how the US military forces had to act. There allot SIOP documents available online and there chilling to read. The planners made sure to win by attacking enemy Target on list at least with three nuclear bombs ! or like documents put harmless "delivery to designated site". A standart SIOP-62 operation "Red button is push" The SRBM, MRBM, ICBM are fired first, the Bomber in air leave their waiting zone and fly to their target, Bomber on ground make Alert take off with their tankers. During 10 minute to 95 minute happen the impact of strategic missile in USSR, mostly on Air-command defence center, military commando center and Moscow. One to dispute chain of command and open gaps in soviet Air-defence system to let the bomber true. Several hours later first wave of B-58 arrive and drop there load on cities or military installation. Follow second wave of B-47 and B-52 groping 20 megaton warheads hours later. And third wave by B-52 much later, until here Moscow had "devlery" of 100 Mega tons on nuclear bombs !!! Now if Soviets were able to respond after that, US Navy SLBM would fired fourth wave on soviets targets... Over the Time each new version of SIOP got overworked and modified like process of order of attack or with concept of Counterforce and Countervalue Attacks. Counterforce was preventing strike to "disarm" the enemy so he could not or do limited attack. Countervalue was simple "pay back" in case the enemy launch all his missile and bomber to USA SAC would nuclear attack all civilian and economic target of the enemy... Cute little "fact". US estimates then and now are that if the Russians launched first, about 35% of US retaliation would be destroyed. A minimum of 500 launcher systems had to survive to kill the Russians. I emphasize the word "kill", as it was assumed that the Russians, if they launched at all, would attempt CONUS annihilation without the fancy Kahn ladder rigamarole. The JFK idea of measured response only works until the first nuclear weapon hits American home soil. Yup once the cold war Soviet and US nukes start to fly we would all screwed. Despite what the movies portray, no way anyone will turn it off until the magazines are empty.
Maybe the cockroaches would prove smarter than we humans.  |
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