pyeknu
Chief petty officer
Seeking a fresh start here
Posts: 191
Likes: 309
|
Post by pyeknu on Apr 19, 2019 18:21:18 GMT
Surprised that people didn't recognize some names in the part I just wrote.  |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,841 
Likes: 13,227
|
Post by stevep on Apr 19, 2019 20:12:45 GMT
"Flash traffic to Montréal and IMF Lauzon, with all the necessary side messages to the applicable parties," the Ontarian infantry officer ordered. "Hood is to be welcomed at IMF Lauzon and put into dry dock. Get those engines and everything else looked over on that ship; I remember Admiral Donovan's little rant about that how badly run down she was. Any further upgrades to her system will have to be negotiated between ourselves and our hosts, but I'm sure Ms. Charron can make the right arrangements with Admiral Fraser. I'll brief the Prime Minister." Doubt HMS hood is going to get here original planned refit/upgrade but gets a little bit more i guess. Here is what was planed for HMS Hood refit in OTL had she not encountered Bismark ore check this out: HMS Hood's Proposed 1942 Large Repair- New internal machinery and improved subdivision. It was desirable to upgrade and relocate engines and boilers. Alternatively, at a minimum the boilers would be replaced. - Rearranged/remodelled torpedo bulges and side armour. Most likely the side bulges would have been extended to the top of the 7" armour belt rather than to the top of the 12" belt. - Improved deck armour/protection over vital areas. - Removal of armoured conning tower and the 5" side armour. - New superstructure and masts fore and aft. Most notably, the forward superstructure would have been a "block" type similar to that of Renown, the Queen Elizabeths or the King George Vs (KGV). - New funnels. These would have been something similar to those on Renown as KGV funnels would have been too small. - Addition of a catapult, dual hangars and Walrus seaplanes. - Improved antiaircraft (AAA) protection. This would include the removal of all existing weaponry and replacement with a total of 6 Mark M eight-barreled pom poms and lastly, the addition of either 12-16 x 5.25" guns (same type as KGV) or 16 x 4.5" (same type as Renown). Of course, the ship would likely have also received updated 0.5" machine guns and multiple 40mm mounts. - Upgraded fire control. She would have received updated radar, fire control tables, comms, directors, etc. - Extended forecastle deck. Hood's stern was notoriously wet due to her overweight condition. An extension was considered for the simple fact that it might help keep the quarterdeck a bit drier. The extension would retain the rough "V" shape but would instead, extend to "X" turret.
I suspect given the knowledge of future events and trends as well as more advanced technology available she's probably going to look different. Say with some missiles and/or advanced CIWS for air defence. However given that the ship is already 20+ years old and the future isn't really with large big gunned ships there is however an argument that there may not be much purpose in a massive refit and construction. Especially with the German fleet largely destroyed and the Italians and the Japanese now uncertain future enemies. There's an argument for possibly completing the ongoing KGV class as their mostly complete but I'm not sure how much value there would be for extensive refitting of an older unit like the Hood.
|
|
pyeknu
Chief petty officer
Seeking a fresh start here
Posts: 191
Likes: 309
|
Post by pyeknu on Apr 19, 2019 21:06:34 GMT
I suspect given the knowledge of future events and trends as well as more advanced technology available she's probably going to look different. Say with some missiles and/or advanced CIWS for air defence. However given that the ship is already 20+ years old and the future isn't really with large big gunned ships there is however an argument that there may not be much purpose in a massive refit and construction. Especially with the German fleet largely destroyed and the Italians and the Japanese now uncertain future enemies. There's an argument for possibly completing the ongoing KGV class as their mostly complete but I'm not sure how much value there would be for extensive refitting of an older unit like the Hood.
True, but until the Admiralty gives the order to fly the paying off pennant, Hood is still an active warship in the Royal Navy. What sort of refit she'll get at Lauzon depends on what's negotiated between the ADM(Fin) of the CF and the 3SL of the RN. Will it be the very complex refit that was proposed at the HMS Hood Association website? Something more simple. It all depends on how the future turns out. That, we have to wait for redrobin65 to decide. |
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 1:20:37 GMT
Ever since the Rhine had been reached, the Allies had been steadily building up forces in the region. Million of soldiers prepared to cross the Rhine and march all the way to Berlin.
Before that could be done, however, appropriate amounts of ammunition, fuel, and other supplies needed to be stockpiled. While the task was daunting, the Allies were able to do this without any major problems, which is more than what can be said about the Wehrmacht. A total of 97 German divisions were active: 8 in Poland, 3 in East Prussia, 1 in Denmark, 5 in Schleswig-Holstein and the North Sea coast, 6 in the Netherlands, 2 in Austria, 4 in the former Czechoslovakia, 41 on the Rhine and its surrounding area, and 27 spread out through the interior.
This was insufficient to counter the Allies for a number of reasons. For one, the Allies had 120 divisions, of which half would cross the Rhine in the initial assault. Secondly, even if the Allied hypothetically had only 41 divisions like the Germans did, the average Heer infantry division in March of 1941 was half the size of its Allied counterpart. Did that mean that the Germans wouldn’t offer stiff resistance? Of course not, but the Allied position was much better. When all of the German supply issues and total Allied air supremacy were taken into account, the Wehrmacht was in for a rough ride.
The Allied strategy was not overly complex. British Commonwealth, Belgian, and Dutch forces would push the Germans out of the Netherlands and move onto the North German Plain. A mixed Allied Army Group in the North-Central Rhineland would cross the river, capture several major cities (which happened to be German fortress towns in all but name), and head towards Hessen. French troops in the Southern Rhineland as well as in Alsace aimed to push through Baden-Wurttemberg and sweep into Bavaria. While all of this was going on, a major air and amphibious attack on Denmark was to occur.
Politicians in Allied capitals aimed to end the war as quickly as possible. Hopefully, that could be achieved.
|
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 1:22:01 GMT
The ORBAT for Allied forces is in the ORBAT thread.
|
|
pyeknu
Chief petty officer
Seeking a fresh start here
Posts: 191
Likes: 309
|
Post by pyeknu on Apr 21, 2019 1:45:11 GMT
The ORBAT for Allied forces is in the ORBAT thread. You forgot the 7th Canadian Division (Airmobile). Will that be directly under First Canadian Army? Just a quick reminder: 41 Brigade is the combat support brigade (engineers and signals) assigned to II Corps. Did you mean one of 7th Division's brigades? |
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 1:52:11 GMT
The ORBAT for Allied forces is in the ORBAT thread. You forgot the 7th Canadian Division (Airmobile). Will that be directly under First Canadian Army? It's part of the Allied Northern Expeditionary Force. |
|
pyeknu
Chief petty officer
Seeking a fresh start here
Posts: 191
Likes: 309
|
Post by pyeknu on Apr 21, 2019 1:53:30 GMT
It's part of the Allied Northern Expeditionary Force. Member units? Edit: Never mind; didn't read that right. Sorry! Still, I have to ask, where did 41 CMBG come from? Is that one of the brigades for 10 CMD or 11 CMD? |
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 1:57:52 GMT
It's part of the Allied Northern Expeditionary Force. Member units? Canadian 7th Airmobile Division, Norwegian 2nd and 5th Infantry Divisions, Danish 1st Infantry Division, Royal Marine 1 Commando Brigade, 40CABG. |
|
pyeknu
Chief petty officer
Seeking a fresh start here
Posts: 191
Likes: 309
|
Post by pyeknu on Apr 21, 2019 1:59:14 GMT
And 40 and 41 Brigades? Where from? 10 CMD or 11 CMD?
|
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 2:05:59 GMT
40 and 41 are independent formations made up of remaining and newly formed units. I'll post their ORBATs tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
Post by redrobin65 on Apr 21, 2019 2:07:53 GMT
Also, the 10th and 11th will be coming to Europe, but not soon enough to be in the first or second waves.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,841
Likes: 13,227
|
Post by stevep on Apr 21, 2019 8:10:04 GMT
Ever since the Rhine had been reached, the Allies had been steadily building up forces in the region. Million of soldiers prepared to cross the Rhine and march all the way to Berlin.
Before that could be done, however, appropriate amounts of ammunition, fuel, and other supplies needed to be stockpiled. While the task was daunting, the Allies were able to do this without any major problems, which is more than what can be said about the Wehrmacht. A total of 97 German divisions were active: 8 in Poland, 3 in East Prussia, 1 in Denmark, 5 in Schleswig-Holstein and the North Sea coast, 6 in the Netherlands, 2 in Austria, 4 in the former Czechoslovakia, 41 on the Rhine and its surrounding area, and 27 spread out through the interior.
This was insufficient to counter the Allies for a number of reasons. For one, the Allies had 120 divisions, of which half would cross the Rhine in the initial assault. Secondly, even if the Allied hypothetically had only 41 divisions like the Germans did, the average Heer infantry division in March of 1941 was half the size of its Allied counterpart. Did that mean that the Germans wouldn’t offer stiff resistance? Of course not, but the Allied position was much better. When all of the German supply issues and total Allied air supremacy were taken into account, the Wehrmacht was in for a rough ride.
The Allied strategy was not overly complex. British Commonwealth, Belgian, and Dutch forces would push the Germans out of the Netherlands and move onto the North German Plain. A mixed Allied Army Group in the North-Central Rhineland would cross the river, capture several major cities (which happened to be German fortress towns in all but name), and head towards Hessen. French troops in the Southern Rhineland as well as in Alsace aimed to push through Baden-Wurttemberg and sweep into Bavaria. While all of this was going on, a major air and amphibious attack on Denmark was to occur.
Politicians in Allied capitals aimed to end the war as quickly as possible. Hopefully, that could be achieved.
Redrobin65
Ah sounds like the plan is a version of shock and awe to overwhelm the Germans by multiple attacks and win it quickly, hopefully going to minimise casualties as a result rather than a long atrictional slog. Hopefully it will work.
Such a dramatic series of attacks, if successful quickly will send a signal to a lot of other powers not to mess with the allies. Which could be helpful in a number of issues.
Steve
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,841
Likes: 13,227
|
Post by stevep on Apr 21, 2019 8:13:14 GMT
I suspect given the knowledge of future events and trends as well as more advanced technology available she's probably going to look different. Say with some missiles and/or advanced CIWS for air defence. However given that the ship is already 20+ years old and the future isn't really with large big gunned ships there is however an argument that there may not be much purpose in a massive refit and construction. Especially with the German fleet largely destroyed and the Italians and the Japanese now uncertain future enemies. There's an argument for possibly completing the ongoing KGV class as their mostly complete but I'm not sure how much value there would be for extensive refitting of an older unit like the Hood.
True, but until the Admiralty gives the order to fly the paying off pennant, Hood is still an active warship in the Royal Navy. What sort of refit she'll get at Lauzon depends on what's negotiated between the ADM(Fin) of the CF and the 3SL of the RN. Will it be the very complex refit that was proposed at the HMS Hood Association website? Something more simple. It all depends on how the future turns out. That, we have to wait for redrobin65 to decide.
Have to see what happens as you say. However I wonder if the RN, other than the 5KGV's and possibly a quickly completed Vanguard, should be concentrating more on something like the Malta class CVs for the core of their future battle fleets, aided by info on designs and operational procedures of CVs and a/c from uptime Canada?
In regards to your previous post I read through the section fairly quickly but nothing significant in names flagged with me. Hopefully someone else picked something up.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,004
Likes: 49,405
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 29, 2019 15:23:52 GMT
True, but until the Admiralty gives the order to fly the paying off pennant, Hood is still an active warship in the Royal Navy. What sort of refit she'll get at Lauzon depends on what's negotiated between the ADM(Fin) of the CF and the 3SL of the RN. Will it be the very complex refit that was proposed at the HMS Hood Association website? Something more simple. It all depends on how the future turns out. That, we have to wait for redrobin65 to decide. Have to see what happens as you say. However I wonder if the RN, other than the 5KGV's and possibly a quickly completed Vanguard, should be concentrating more on something like the Malta class CVs for the core of their future battle fleets, aided by info on designs and operational procedures of CVs and a/c from uptime Canada? With the lesson learned from the years to come like a Angled flight deck and such. |
|
