James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on May 18, 2018 15:27:18 GMT
Things remain crazy and that will be the case in Arizona and California where we go next: that optimism shown before will be blown away. This isn't going to be short and easy. I hadn't actually thought of European civilians returning from the US and elsewhere! I will add that. Do you know about this, it might be orbat of 1989 but it looks cool. Literature on the topicI had a skim through and the East German one seemed like it would be helpful. Thank you. Possibly although I can see some deciding on this option as they feel that their own governments, in deserting allies in a time of need, has behavioured badly and also that if the Soviets win then how long would a weakened western Europe maintain any liberty? Given the chaos in the US currently and their likely view of those Europeans breaking with NATO, which is effectively what their doing, I suspect that the initial attitude to sending soldiers especially back to Europe is likely to be 'go to hell' - albeit possibly phased a bit more diplomatically. Then probably something along the line of "of course your will be returning our troops and equipment in your countries won't you?". Which must take priority such the US is under attack unlike the NATO defectors. Plus there would be the question of who supplies shipping and escorts for soldiers and civilians returning to Europe? The US might argue that since their in the middle of a full scale war, including large scale invasion of their homeland they can't spare the ships/aircraft or escorts for them. Pointing out that with the Soviet behaviour it could be a dangerous operation even if their sailing in neutral shipping. There is still a lot of anger between governments early on but some of that will simmer eventually. Having neutral former friends can always be useful. So a country (USA and to a lesser extent Canada) is fighting a full scale war on their home territory and they also have to deal with a major city destroyed by nuclear missiles and several rural areas are nuclear wastelands. How the hell are they going to cope? Katrina and Sandy pushed the government to the breaking point so I just cannot see the US not falling into complete chaos. Maybe the invasion will focus the population to pull together but I have my doubts. As for foreigners trying to leave? The US is likely thinking "if you can find your own way home then fill your boots. We've got bigger problems. We aren't lifting a finger to help you. So either pick up a rifle or a shovel or get the hell out." There will be a lot of problems. I have touched on some of that but need to return to it too. The US won't fall apart - distance matters I believe - but there will be a lot of trouble, especially as the invaders break out of bridgeheads and start running free. Well, you say that, if W is left in Texas as the Soviets arrive, then the son of a former CIA Director is a HUGE prize. Taking a leaf from the North Korean playbook, a Brainwashed W giving propaganda broadcasts, confirming the Soviet's version of events, decrying the imperialist machinations of the CIA to bring about such a calamity could be... interesting. That said, he was Texas ANG Pilot trained to fly recon. Give him a jet and a refresher course - Bush the Combat Pilot could be an interesting post war record if he runs for office? That's interesting. I have some ideas on something like this and while not necessarily Bush Jr., along those lines. Watch out for the next mention of El Paso. If you recall from before and Version-1, similar bad things happened in Europe. They will again there too. It won't always work, not very often in fact, but these things will be tried. This is war and bad things will happen to innocent people. The USA are not the only country being invaded in history, the goverment will cope...plus Reaganeconomics and years of Republican hortodoxy that declared the goverment as the only thing that stop the achievement of economic, social and personal prosperity and so need to be downsized as much as possible has not happened. Katrina and Sandy had not transformed New Orleans and New Jersey in Somalia or wasteland, and more importantly for now the bulk of the effort of the goverment it's to repell the invasion, rescue effort come second and left more to the locals authority, except for the bigger cases. The US is hurt, hurt badder than some in charge realise, but they aren't finished. What they need is a period of stabilisation, where things remain unchanged, to recover. That is something their opponents won't want to give them, knowing full well that the US can fully rise up with a potential they can never hope to match. I could also see the ships going to the USA carrying humanitarian supplies for internal refugees and disaster relief (some of which may actually be other stuff) that will help the Americans out at least a little bit. Committees for Disaster Relief and such like will spring up and there will be a genuine desire to help civilians...with some taking advantage to funnel weapons/ammunition/goodies along with those. a) It will be messy but people and orgnisations will muddle through. There will be mistakes, bureaucratic infighting and mix-ups but the country will survive. In part its less centralised than many other big powers and also being so large only a relatively small proportion is directly affected by nuclear strikes or immediate invasion/air attacks. b) Hadn't seen a mention that the Europeans had made clear they wouldn't attempt to prevent belligerent troops leaving their lands to return home. That would ease things a bit. However given the circumstances I don't think helping in the repatriation of European [neutral] troops would be that high a priority for the US. I'm not sure whether one convoy would eb enough but even if it is it will be going through a war zone and there is the chance that somebody will make a mistake and take a pot-shot at it. If they try and get through using unarmed ships/aircraft then even with broadcasting that to all and sundry its quite possible for something to go wrong. Especially with Soviet paranoia. President Mitterrand said that France would work to see US forces leave West Germany. The Soviets will be furious. There are far less to go back the other way. It is mainly going to be civilians. The North Atlantic is a war zone. That should be interesting.
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Post by lukedalton on May 18, 2018 15:32:22 GMT
B) Mitterand had assured that nobody will stop the US troops to leave with their equipment (even if i suspect a lot will be left behind due to sheer logistic strain and the need to leave quickly).
One convoy? There will be at least a dozen of massive convoy using whatever ship possible, plus whatever civilian aircraft will be deputized to be used (even if it will be more risky); nobody say that will be risk free and incident will probably happen, but it's also much less risky than remain stranded in the USA with minimal help and i expect that the soviet will stay far far away from this convoy (at least initially) due to political reason. General european attitude will be: this is the convoy, this is the no fly zone, enter and we shoot you down/sunk you without warning or shread a tear. What will be requested from the USA will be not get in the way and probably keep their own citizen to try to hitch a ride from the convoy/aircraft
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 18, 2018 16:14:47 GMT
I had a skim through and the East German one seemed like it would be helpful. Thank you. Glad i could help, i like these kind of things.
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lordbyron
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Post by lordbyron on May 18, 2018 17:56:24 GMT
Good update, James G.
I've been thinking (and I know this is morbid) about what would have been the likely targets had you decided to have New York City attacked like you DC.
IMO, the likely targets would have been JFK, La Guardia, and Newark Airports, and Wall Street (it is the financial capital of the US; destroying that would add to the chaos).
If that had happened, that would have added a million people to those killed on September 17th (not to mention all those who died later of injuries/aftereffects)...
Glad you didn't go that route.
Waiting for more, of course...
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on May 19, 2018 16:45:12 GMT
B) Mitterand had assured that nobody will stop the US troops to leave with their equipment (even if i suspect a lot will be left behind due to sheer logistic strain and the need to leave quickly). One convoy? There will be at least a dozen of massive convoy using whatever ship possible, plus whatever civilian aircraft will be deputized to be used (even if it will be more risky); nobody say that will be risk free and incident will probably happen, but it's also much less risky than remain stranded in the USA with minimal help and i expect that the soviet will stay far far away from this convoy (at least initially) due to political reason. General european attitude will be: this is the convoy, this is the no fly zone, enter and we shoot you down/sunk you without warning or shread a tear. What will be requested from the USA will be not get in the way and probably keep their own citizen to try to hitch a ride from the convoy/aircraft That is true. There is a lot of military gear in Western Europe and its not like it can all be taken out at once. Glad i could help, i like these kind of things. So do I. Good update, James G. I've been thinking (and I know this is morbid) about what would have been the likely targets had you decided to have New York City attacked like you DC. IMO, the likely targets would have been JFK, La Guardia, and Newark Airports, and Wall Street (it is the financial capital of the US; destroying that would add to the chaos). If that had happened, that would have added a million people to those killed on September 17th (not to mention all those who died later of injuries/aftereffects)... Glad you didn't go that route. Waiting for more, of course... Thank you. NYC still stands. That is a reasonable target plot too, spreading out fire. Thankfully, it hasn't happened.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on May 19, 2018 16:47:58 GMT
(172)
26th–31st September 1984:
The Cubans weren’t about to reinforce failure. It had been done before and would be done again, but others elsewhere: not by the parts of the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces sent to take part in the war inside the United States. Cuba didn’t have the men to waste. Neither was there a desire to see the ‘setback’ in California turn to a ‘defeat’. The Western Front was led by a Cuban general (with a Soviet Army officer as his first deputy) and he had personal instructions from the Castro Brothers on what was and what wasn’t to occur with Cuba’s army. Such instructions didn’t contradict with the official doctrine for the joint war plan yet if they had, the ones from Havana would take precedence. Orders from the Western Front HQ came for the Cuban Third Army to advance into southwestern Arizona, not into southern California. Ninety thousand Cuban soldiers in total were driven onwards through the heat of the barren Sonoran Desert and through the falling bombs from skies full of American aircraft which were unable to be stopped from getting at them. There were delays incurred by those falling bombs. Units did get lost. Resistance on the ground was heavier than expected when encountered. Regardless, the Third Army drove onwards through late September and into the gap that there was between American forces. On their flanks, the Cuban First Army in the Imperial Valley had suffered that setback there while to the east the Americans had recently ravaged the Nicaraguans & Guatemalans. Setbacks had been for others: they were going through Arizona and into California without being stopped.
Air attacks were made against the Americans on the ground ahead where they were flying from with some degree of success. Cuban aircraft were joined by Soviet aircraft in attempting to make raids against airbases (permanent and temporary) with small, low-level actions undertaken. Attacks against Gila Bend AFB & Williams AFB got through; those against Kingman Airport, Luke AFB and Phoenix Airport failed. More luck was had on the ground with electronic reconnaissance teams – again the Soviets providing much assistance to the Cubans – identifying and pinpointing American command posts for attack. The 41st Infantry Brigade was an Oregon Army National Guard unit far from home with its men right on the frontlines of the incoming Cuban ground attack; their HQ was hit by a Cuban commando team with the military policemen there just not up to task and then a massacre taking place of staff & communications personnel. When it came to the US Army’s 9th Infantry Division, who would be on the flank of the Cuban Third Army, their mobile HQ was detected when on the move as security with that was being coordinated too openly over the airwaves. A flight of Soviet Hind gunships went after the column when on the move and began their attack. Unplanned was the appearance of American fighters in the form of California Air National Guard F-4Cs not coming to rescue those on the ground but just passing by when the Hinds were spotted below. They broke off their return flight back to California from an anti-air patrol over Arizona to bring down two of those gunships but failed to get the other two which, to escape certain destruction, simply landed at the crucial moment before the Phantoms had to fly off due to lack of fuel. That air battle, jets-v-helicopters, occurred after most of the 9th Infantry’s HQ had been so thoroughly shot-up by rockets and gunfire from those Hinds. Other headquarters, those of the 81st Infantry Brigade (Washington Army National Guard), the OPFOR Group and the I US Corps escaped detection but those hunting for them remained doing so with the aim of destroying them and killing those at each.
Two of the Cuban infantry divisions broke away from the main body of the Third Army advance to engage with the Americans spread through Arizona. There were extra attachments of anti-tank units with them though they really could have benefitted more from more anti-aircraft support in terms of guns and SAMs. The Americans blasted them from above. They did their job though, soaking up American fire and also attention. The I Corps struggled to have the 41st Brigade get at those Cubans and when it came to the 9th Infantry, that division’s brigades were individually tasked by the corps headquarters until proper command could be established with their parent command. The rest of the American ground forces in Arizona were in the wrong place and the left wing of the Third Army drove onwards, turning towards California. This was no easy feat. The three other divisions – including the last of Cuba’s heavy units available for deployment overseas – were able to use roads which the Americans had used military police to keep open and clear yet the Colorado River barred their way. Near Blythe, the East Germans had blown up that civilian crossing and then US Army engineers destroyed the improvised crossing which they had set up; the Parker crossing further upstream was also destroyed ahead of them, this time by an American air strike. Entry into California was meant to be made through a narrow front as the Third Army stopped going north and turned west so that air defence could be concentrated better. There were further air attacks made towards American airbases, this time ranging into California as well as commando attacks on some of them too (not much success was had) but what was really needed was to get at the Americans in the sky. They had limited ground forces available yet plenty of air power. Airborne radar aircraft, complete with onboard battle staff, in the form of E-3 Sentry’s were lining-up aircraft coming in. MCAS Yuma was a ruin and incapable of hosting major air operations. The Western Front had to rely on smaller captured facilities such as Laguna & Libby Army Airfields – along with the partially-usable and recently-captured Ajo Airport – for their own aircraft. Several regiments of Cuban and Soviet aircraft were flying from these locations though none was at full strength. Those aircraft were needed in the skies and were sent up to challenge the Americans in experiences which were certainly no fun for those involved. Soviet MiG-29 Fulcrums flying from Laguna were assigned the last of going after those E-3s, one which was always on station in the skies above the very bottom of Nevada. The first attack failed. So did the second. The third got through, again with losses taken to the Fulcrums, yet they managed to fire off their missiles to hit and bring down the E-3 targeted. Another one lifted off from Nellis AFB straight away and the gap in coverage in terms of time was small. That was made use of as best as possible. There was disruption to American air operations and more fighters were released among them to try to bring as many of them down as possible before they could come near the engineers throwing bridges over the river. The value of those E-3 attacks – the two failures and the one costly success – would be questioned. Most American aircraft were brought down by SAMs. The US Marines had shifted their anti-SAM operations away from the Imperial Valley as the Cubans approached their own flank but that wasn’t enough. More and more missiles were lofted into the sky as the Third Army got further air defence units forward. They managed to open some bridges over the Colorado River.
The 3rd Armored & 80th Mechanised Divisions, led by the 8th Reconnaissance Brigade, started moving onwards with another infantry division covering their rear. Supply trucks moved behind the mass of tanks and armoured vehicles with more to follow. It was those that the OPFOR Group came after. That regimental-sized formation who’d won that fight at Parker against Soviet airmobile troops the week before then had been sent deep into Arizona had been turned back around and came towards the Colorado River. Cuban reconnaissance efforts missed them. The radio-discipline they maintained was taught to others yet not always practised when it really should have been. No mistake like that was present when the US Army unit crossed through Arizona off-road in an overnight advance and then came at the Cuban 27th Infantry Division near to Quartzsite. Cuban T-55 tanks were gone through like their guns were peashooters. Onwards the OPFOR Group went, bypassing the majority of the Cuban screening forces after shooting-up their tanks, with a drive towards the river crossings where all of those supply trucks could be found. They ran into an anti-tank unit through, big guns positioned on high and under cover. Well-aimed shots came down upon the American tanks and infantry carriers below. The OPFOR Group took horrible losses but fought to manoeuvre their way out of the fire. They went into a minefield scattered by artillery yet still moved onwards, determined to get at the prizes by the river. Cuban infantry turned up and the OPFOR Group were taken under fire by them. Their strength had been in fighting on the move yet the terrain which they found themselves in short of the river and with all those damn anti-tank guns up on high was no good for them. They withdrew away northwards, a fighting withdrawal made across the course of Interstate-10 where they went through Cuban infantry trying to come towards them and then moved off into the wilderness. A quarter of their strength was gone but they weren’t finished for good. They just moved off for now.
The Cubans were out in the open through Riverside County. They’d gone through the green Pala Verde Valley and back into the desert again. The way ahead of them was open on the ground though the skies were still full of American aircraft which wouldn’t give up. BRDM scout cars followed by tracked BRMs pushed onwards following the course of Interstate-10 with the 80th Division close behind those ahead in the reconnaissance role; the 3rd Division was trailing back behind. They had an excellent road link to follow through the desert with there being signposts guiding them far better than any map could. The Coachella Valley was right ahead, just keep following the road running west, said those signs. Los Angeles was that way too. US Marines disengaging from what should have been the final move to finish off the Cuban First Army cut off what had been an unchecked Cuban advance all the way to the Pacific. Most of the 5th Marine Brigade got in the way, along with Marine tanks, and took the brunt of the attack from the Cuban 80th Division. The Cubans attempted to spread out, to get through, but the US Marines wouldn’t let them pass; the rest of the 1st Marine Division would be cut off to their south if they gave ground, maybe California’s 40th Infantry Division too. The 80th Division was held, the 3rd Division came forward, going ahead despite increasing American air attacks that came on the face of extraordinary air defensive fire. Cuban and Soviet fighters couldn’t get near that battle and, in all honestly, were lucky that they didn’t: SAMs were going after anything in the sky. That second Cuban division was spotted breaking away and tracked by incoming aircraft but there was no one on the ground to stop them. Cuban tanks went away from the battle with US Marines and headed towards Desert Hot Springs first yet turned instead to get into the Coachella Valley at the top. Along the course of the interstate within the valley, there were American trucks laden with supplies which were shot up when orders were to capture them if possible: gunfire had come from crews against infantry departing from BMPs and heading towards them. Palm Springs Airport saw T-72s race onto it as national guard helicopters lifted off in a hurry rather than be caught on the ground. What was most important was the San Gorgonio Pass. Cuban tanks reached there and shut off any hope of escape to those trapped south of them through the Coachella & Imperial Valleys. There were no more American troops of substantial number on the West Coast. There had been those which had gone to South Korea pre-war and then those cut off now in southern California or in the preceding days out in Arizona. Short of air power, and the Cuban’s own long supply lines, there really was nothing left in the way between the Cubans and the Pacific… where Los Angeles was.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 17:47:26 GMT
(172)26th–31st September 1984: The Cubans weren’t about to reinforce failure. It had been done before and would be done again, but others elsewhere: not by the parts of the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces sent to take part in the war inside the United States. Cuba didn’t have the men to waste. Neither was there a desire to see the ‘setback’ in California turn to a ‘defeat’. The Western Front was led by a Cuban general (with a Soviet Army officer as his first deputy) and he had personal instructions from the Castro Brothers on what was and what wasn’t to occur with Cuba’s army. Such instructions didn’t contradict with the official doctrine for the joint war plan yet if they had, the ones from Havana would take precedence. Orders from the Western Front HQ came for the Cuban Third Army to advance into southwestern Arizona, not into southern California. Ninety thousand Cuban soldiers in total were driven onwards through the heat of the barren Sonoran Desert and through the falling bombs from skies full of American aircraft which were unable to be stopped from getting at them. There were delays incurred by those falling bombs. Units did get lost. Resistance on the ground was heavier than expected when encountered. Regardless, the Third Army drove onwards through late September and into the gap that there was between American forces. On their flanks, the Cuban First Army in the Imperial Valley had suffered that setback there while to the east the Americans had recently ravaged the Nicaraguans & Guatemalans. Setbacks had been for others: they were going through Arizona and into California without being stopped. Air attacks were made against the Americans on the ground ahead where they were flying from with some degree of success. Cuban aircraft were joined by Soviet aircraft in attempting to make raids against airbases (permanent and temporary) with small, low-level actions undertaken. Attacks against Gila Bend AFB & Williams AFB got through; those against Kingman Airport, Luke AFB and Phoenix Airport failed. More luck was had on the ground with electronic reconnaissance teams – again the Soviets providing much assistance to the Cubans – identifying and pinpointing American command posts for attack. The 41st Infantry Brigade was an Oregon Army National Guard unit far from home with its men right on the frontlines of the incoming Cuban ground attack; their HQ was hit by a Cuban commando team with the military policemen there just not up to task and then a massacre taking place of staff & communications personnel. When it came to the US Army’s 9th Infantry Division, who would be on the flank of the Cuban Third Army, their mobile HQ was detected when on the move as security with that was being coordinated too openly over the airwaves. A flight of Soviet Hind gunships went after the column when on the move and began their attack. Unplanned was the appearance of American fighters in the form of California Air National Guard F-4Cs not coming to rescue those on the ground but just passing by when the Hinds were spotted below. They broke off their return flight back to California from an anti-air patrol over Arizona to bring down two of those gunships but failed to get the other two which, to escape certain destruction, simply landed at the crucial moment before the Phantoms had to fly off due to lack of fuel. That air battle, jets-v-helicopters, occurred after most of the 9th Infantry’s HQ had been so thoroughly shot-up by rockets and gunfire from those Hinds. Other headquarters, those of the 81st Infantry Brigade (Washington Army National Guard), the OPFOR Group and the I US Corps escaped detection but those hunting for them remained doing so with the aim of destroying them and killing those at each. Two of the Cuban infantry divisions broke away from the main body of the Third Army advance to engage with the Americans spread through Arizona. There were extra attachments of anti-tank units with them though they really could have benefitted more from more anti-aircraft support in terms of guns and SAMs. The Americans blasted them from above. They did their job though, soaking up American fire and also attention. The I Corps struggled to have the 41st Brigade get at those Cubans and when it came to the 9th Infantry, that division’s brigades were individually tasked by the corps headquarters until proper command could be established with their parent command. The rest of the American ground forces in Arizona were in the wrong place and the left wing of the Third Army drove onwards, turning towards California. This was no easy feat. The three other divisions – including the last of Cuba’s heavy units available for deployment overseas – were able to use roads which the Americans had used military police to keep open and clear yet the Colorado River barred their way. Near Blythe, the East Germans had blown up that civilian crossing and then US Army engineers destroyed the improvised crossing which they had set up; the Parker crossing further upstream was also destroyed ahead of them, this time by an American air strike. Entry into California was meant to be made through a narrow front as the Third Army stopped going north and turned west so that air defence could be concentrated better. There were further air attacks made towards American airbases, this time ranging into California as well as commando attacks on some of them too (not much success was had) but what was really needed was to get at the Americans in the sky. They had limited ground forces available yet plenty of air power. Airborne radar aircraft, complete with onboard battle staff, in the form of E-3 Sentry’s were lining-up aircraft coming in. MCAS Yuma was a ruin and incapable of hosting major air operations. The Western Front had to rely on smaller captured facilities such as Laguna & Libby Army Airfields – along with the partially-usable and recently-captured Ajo Airport – for their own aircraft. Several regiments of Cuban and Soviet aircraft were flying from these locations though none was at full strength. Those aircraft were needed in the skies and were sent up to challenge the Americans in experiences which were certainly no fun for those involved. Soviet MiG-29 Fulcrums flying from Laguna were assigned the last of going after those E-3s, one which was always on station in the skies above the very bottom of Nevada. The first attack failed. So did the second. The third got through, again with losses taken to the Fulcrums, yet they managed to fire off their missiles to hit and bring down the E-3 targeted. Another one lifted off from Nellis AFB straight away and the gap in coverage in terms of time was small. That was made use of as best as possible. There was disruption to American air operations and more fighters were released among them to try to bring as many of them down as possible before they could come near the engineers throwing bridges over the river. The value of those E-3 attacks – the two failures and the one costly success – would be questioned. Most American aircraft were brought down by SAMs. The US Marines had shifted their anti-SAM operations away from the Imperial Valley as the Cubans approached their own flank but that wasn’t enough. More and more missiles were lofted into the sky as the Third Army got further air defence units forward. They managed to open some bridges over the Colorado River. The 3rd Armored & 80th Mechanised Divisions, led by the 8th Reconnaissance Brigade, started moving onwards with another infantry division covering their rear. Supply trucks moved behind the mass of tanks and armoured vehicles with more to follow. It was those that the OPFOR Group came after. That regimental-sized formation who’d won that fight at Parker against Soviet airmobile troops the week before then had been sent deep into Arizona had been turned back around and came towards the Colorado River. Cuban reconnaissance efforts missed them. The radio-discipline they maintained was taught to others yet not always practised when it really should have been. No mistake like that was present when the US Army unit crossed through Arizona off-road in an overnight advance and then came at the Cuban 27th Infantry Division near to Quartzsite. Cuban T-55 tanks were gone through like their guns were peashooters. Onwards the OPFOR Group went, bypassing the majority of the Cuban screening forces after shooting-up their tanks, with a drive towards the river crossings where all of those supply trucks could be found. They ran into an anti-tank unit through, big guns positioned on high and under cover. Well-aimed shots came down upon the American tanks and infantry carriers below. The OPFOR Group took horrible losses but fought to manoeuvre their way out of the fire. They went into a minefield scattered by artillery yet still moved onwards, determined to get at the prizes by the river. Cuban infantry turned up and the OPFOR Group were taken under fire by them. Their strength had been in fighting on the move yet the terrain which they found themselves in short of the river and with all those damn anti-tank guns up on high was no good for them. They withdrew away northwards, a fighting withdrawal made across the course of Interstate-10 where they went through Cuban infantry trying to come towards them and then moved off into the wilderness. A quarter of their strength was gone but they weren’t finished for good. They just moved off for now. The Cubans were out in the open through Riverside County. They’d gone through the green Pala Verde Valley and back into the desert again. The way ahead of them was open on the ground though the skies were still full of American aircraft which wouldn’t give up. BRDM scout cars followed by tracked BRMs pushed onwards following the course of Interstate-10 with the 80th Division close behind those ahead in the reconnaissance role; the 3rd Division was trailing back behind. They had an excellent road link to follow through the desert with there being signposts guiding them far better than any map could. The Coachella Valley was right ahead, just keep following the road running west, said those signs. Los Angeles was that way too. US Marines disengaging from what should have been the final move to finish off the Cuban First Army cut off what had been an unchecked Cuban advance all the way to the Pacific. Most of the 5th Marine Brigade got in the way, along with Marine tanks, and took the brunt of the attack from the Cuban 80th Division. The Cubans attempted to spread out, to get through, but the US Marines wouldn’t let them pass; the rest of the 1st Marine Division would be cut off to their south if they gave ground, maybe California’s 40th Infantry Division too. The 80th Division was held, the 3rd Division came forward, going ahead despite increasing American air attacks that came on the face of extraordinary air defensive fire. Cuban and Soviet fighters couldn’t get near that battle and, in all honestly, were lucky that they didn’t: SAMs were going after anything in the sky. That second Cuban division was spotted breaking away and tracked by incoming aircraft but there was no one on the ground to stop them. Cuban tanks went away from the battle with US Marines and headed towards Desert Hot Springs first yet turned instead to get into the Coachella Valley at the top. Along the course of the interstate within the valley, there were American trucks laden with supplies which were shot up when orders were to capture them if possible: gunfire had come from crews against infantry departing from BMPs and heading towards them. Palm Springs Airport saw T-72s race onto it as national guard helicopters lifted off in a hurry rather than be caught on the ground. What was most important was the San Gorgonio Pass. Cuban tanks reached there and shut off any hope of escape to those trapped south of them through the Coachella & Imperial Valleys. There were no more American troops of substantial number on the West Coast. There had been those which had gone to South Korea pre-war and then those cut off now in southern California or in the preceding days out in Arizona. Short of air power, and the Cuban’s own long supply lines, there really was nothing left in the way between the Cubans and the Pacific… where Los Angeles was. That is not good, a lot of Hollywood celebrity's are going to find a new home ore become guest of the Soviets and Cubans.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on May 19, 2018 18:34:58 GMT
(172)26th–31st September 1984: The Cubans weren’t about to reinforce failure. It had been done before and would be done again, but others elsewhere: not by the parts of the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces sent to take part in the war inside the United States. Cuba didn’t have the men to waste. Neither was there a desire to see the ‘setback’ in California turn to a ‘defeat’. The Western Front was led by a Cuban general (with a Soviet Army officer as his first deputy) and he had personal instructions from the Castro Brothers on what was and what wasn’t to occur with Cuba’s army. Such instructions didn’t contradict with the official doctrine for the joint war plan yet if they had, the ones from Havana would take precedence. Orders from the Western Front HQ came for the Cuban Third Army to advance into southwestern Arizona, not into southern California. Ninety thousand Cuban soldiers in total were driven onwards through the heat of the barren Sonoran Desert and through the falling bombs from skies full of American aircraft which were unable to be stopped from getting at them. There were delays incurred by those falling bombs. Units did get lost. Resistance on the ground was heavier than expected when encountered. Regardless, the Third Army drove onwards through late September and into the gap that there was between American forces. On their flanks, the Cuban First Army in the Imperial Valley had suffered that setback there while to the east the Americans had recently ravaged the Nicaraguans & Guatemalans. Setbacks had been for others: they were going through Arizona and into California without being stopped. Air attacks were made against the Americans on the ground ahead where they were flying from with some degree of success. Cuban aircraft were joined by Soviet aircraft in attempting to make raids against airbases (permanent and temporary) with small, low-level actions undertaken. Attacks against Gila Bend AFB & Williams AFB got through; those against Kingman Airport, Luke AFB and Phoenix Airport failed. More luck was had on the ground with electronic reconnaissance teams – again the Soviets providing much assistance to the Cubans – identifying and pinpointing American command posts for attack. The 41st Infantry Brigade was an Oregon Army National Guard unit far from home with its men right on the frontlines of the incoming Cuban ground attack; their HQ was hit by a Cuban commando team with the military policemen there just not up to task and then a massacre taking place of staff & communications personnel. When it came to the US Army’s 9th Infantry Division, who would be on the flank of the Cuban Third Army, their mobile HQ was detected when on the move as security with that was being coordinated too openly over the airwaves. A flight of Soviet Hind gunships went after the column when on the move and began their attack. Unplanned was the appearance of American fighters in the form of California Air National Guard F-4Cs not coming to rescue those on the ground but just passing by when the Hinds were spotted below. They broke off their return flight back to California from an anti-air patrol over Arizona to bring down two of those gunships but failed to get the other two which, to escape certain destruction, simply landed at the crucial moment before the Phantoms had to fly off due to lack of fuel. That air battle, jets-v-helicopters, occurred after most of the 9th Infantry’s HQ had been so thoroughly shot-up by rockets and gunfire from those Hinds. Other headquarters, those of the 81st Infantry Brigade (Washington Army National Guard), the OPFOR Group and the I US Corps escaped detection but those hunting for them remained doing so with the aim of destroying them and killing those at each. Two of the Cuban infantry divisions broke away from the main body of the Third Army advance to engage with the Americans spread through Arizona. There were extra attachments of anti-tank units with them though they really could have benefitted more from more anti-aircraft support in terms of guns and SAMs. The Americans blasted them from above. They did their job though, soaking up American fire and also attention. The I Corps struggled to have the 41st Brigade get at those Cubans and when it came to the 9th Infantry, that division’s brigades were individually tasked by the corps headquarters until proper command could be established with their parent command. The rest of the American ground forces in Arizona were in the wrong place and the left wing of the Third Army drove onwards, turning towards California. This was no easy feat. The three other divisions – including the last of Cuba’s heavy units available for deployment overseas – were able to use roads which the Americans had used military police to keep open and clear yet the Colorado River barred their way. Near Blythe, the East Germans had blown up that civilian crossing and then US Army engineers destroyed the improvised crossing which they had set up; the Parker crossing further upstream was also destroyed ahead of them, this time by an American air strike. Entry into California was meant to be made through a narrow front as the Third Army stopped going north and turned west so that air defence could be concentrated better. There were further air attacks made towards American airbases, this time ranging into California as well as commando attacks on some of them too (not much success was had) but what was really needed was to get at the Americans in the sky. They had limited ground forces available yet plenty of air power. Airborne radar aircraft, complete with onboard battle staff, in the form of E-3 Sentry’s were lining-up aircraft coming in. MCAS Yuma was a ruin and incapable of hosting major air operations. The Western Front had to rely on smaller captured facilities such as Laguna & Libby Army Airfields – along with the partially-usable and recently-captured Ajo Airport – for their own aircraft. Several regiments of Cuban and Soviet aircraft were flying from these locations though none was at full strength. Those aircraft were needed in the skies and were sent up to challenge the Americans in experiences which were certainly no fun for those involved. Soviet MiG-29 Fulcrums flying from Laguna were assigned the last of going after those E-3s, one which was always on station in the skies above the very bottom of Nevada. The first attack failed. So did the second. The third got through, again with losses taken to the Fulcrums, yet they managed to fire off their missiles to hit and bring down the E-3 targeted. Another one lifted off from Nellis AFB straight away and the gap in coverage in terms of time was small. That was made use of as best as possible. There was disruption to American air operations and more fighters were released among them to try to bring as many of them down as possible before they could come near the engineers throwing bridges over the river. The value of those E-3 attacks – the two failures and the one costly success – would be questioned. Most American aircraft were brought down by SAMs. The US Marines had shifted their anti-SAM operations away from the Imperial Valley as the Cubans approached their own flank but that wasn’t enough. More and more missiles were lofted into the sky as the Third Army got further air defence units forward. They managed to open some bridges over the Colorado River. The 3rd Armored & 80th Mechanised Divisions, led by the 8th Reconnaissance Brigade, started moving onwards with another infantry division covering their rear. Supply trucks moved behind the mass of tanks and armoured vehicles with more to follow. It was those that the OPFOR Group came after. That regimental-sized formation who’d won that fight at Parker against Soviet airmobile troops the week before then had been sent deep into Arizona had been turned back around and came towards the Colorado River. Cuban reconnaissance efforts missed them. The radio-discipline they maintained was taught to others yet not always practised when it really should have been. No mistake like that was present when the US Army unit crossed through Arizona off-road in an overnight advance and then came at the Cuban 27th Infantry Division near to Quartzsite. Cuban T-55 tanks were gone through like their guns were peashooters. Onwards the OPFOR Group went, bypassing the majority of the Cuban screening forces after shooting-up their tanks, with a drive towards the river crossings where all of those supply trucks could be found. They ran into an anti-tank unit through, big guns positioned on high and under cover. Well-aimed shots came down upon the American tanks and infantry carriers below. The OPFOR Group took horrible losses but fought to manoeuvre their way out of the fire. They went into a minefield scattered by artillery yet still moved onwards, determined to get at the prizes by the river. Cuban infantry turned up and the OPFOR Group were taken under fire by them. Their strength had been in fighting on the move yet the terrain which they found themselves in short of the river and with all those damn anti-tank guns up on high was no good for them. They withdrew away northwards, a fighting withdrawal made across the course of Interstate-10 where they went through Cuban infantry trying to come towards them and then moved off into the wilderness. A quarter of their strength was gone but they weren’t finished for good. They just moved off for now. The Cubans were out in the open through Riverside County. They’d gone through the green Pala Verde Valley and back into the desert again. The way ahead of them was open on the ground though the skies were still full of American aircraft which wouldn’t give up. BRDM scout cars followed by tracked BRMs pushed onwards following the course of Interstate-10 with the 80th Division close behind those ahead in the reconnaissance role; the 3rd Division was trailing back behind. They had an excellent road link to follow through the desert with there being signposts guiding them far better than any map could. The Coachella Valley was right ahead, just keep following the road running west, said those signs. Los Angeles was that way too. US Marines disengaging from what should have been the final move to finish off the Cuban First Army cut off what had been an unchecked Cuban advance all the way to the Pacific. Most of the 5th Marine Brigade got in the way, along with Marine tanks, and took the brunt of the attack from the Cuban 80th Division. The Cubans attempted to spread out, to get through, but the US Marines wouldn’t let them pass; the rest of the 1st Marine Division would be cut off to their south if they gave ground, maybe California’s 40th Infantry Division too. The 80th Division was held, the 3rd Division came forward, going ahead despite increasing American air attacks that came on the face of extraordinary air defensive fire. Cuban and Soviet fighters couldn’t get near that battle and, in all honestly, were lucky that they didn’t: SAMs were going after anything in the sky. That second Cuban division was spotted breaking away and tracked by incoming aircraft but there was no one on the ground to stop them. Cuban tanks went away from the battle with US Marines and headed towards Desert Hot Springs first yet turned instead to get into the Coachella Valley at the top. Along the course of the interstate within the valley, there were American trucks laden with supplies which were shot up when orders were to capture them if possible: gunfire had come from crews against infantry departing from BMPs and heading towards them. Palm Springs Airport saw T-72s race onto it as national guard helicopters lifted off in a hurry rather than be caught on the ground. What was most important was the San Gorgonio Pass. Cuban tanks reached there and shut off any hope of escape to those trapped south of them through the Coachella & Imperial Valleys. There were no more American troops of substantial number on the West Coast. There had been those which had gone to South Korea pre-war and then those cut off now in southern California or in the preceding days out in Arizona. Short of air power, and the Cuban’s own long supply lines, there really was nothing left in the way between the Cubans and the Pacific… where Los Angeles was. That is not good, a lot of Hollywood celebrity's are going to find a new home ore become guest of the Soviets and Cubans. LA is pretty huge and so there is a lot of time to run. Gold Base, home of an infamous cult, was up and running at this time down in the Coachella Valley: I'd imagine that those there wouldn't enjoy being under foreign occupation. A helicopter or a difficult trip over the mountains is the only way out for Hubbard and his ilk.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 18:37:10 GMT
That is not good, a lot of Hollywood celebrity's are going to find a new home ore become guest of the Soviets and Cubans. LA is pretty huge and so there is a lot of time to run. Gold Base, home of an infamous cult, was up and running at this time down in the Coachella Valley: I'd imagine that those there wouldn't enjoy being under foreign occupation. A helicopter or a difficult trip over the mountains is the only way out for Hubbard and his ilk. Will we see FBI agents round up any members of the Communist Party USA
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on May 19, 2018 18:40:51 GMT
LA is pretty huge and so there is a lot of time to run. Gold Base, home of an infamous cult, was up and running at this time down in the Coachella Valley: I'd imagine that those there wouldn't enjoy being under foreign occupation. A helicopter or a difficult trip over the mountains is the only way out for Hubbard and his ilk. Will we see FBI agents round up any members of the Communist Party USAYep, and a heck of a lot of more people: probably some they shouldn't. The McCarran Act will be used, quite the piece of legislation which a lot of people will not like to see used. I'll turn to that in the update after next when we go to how things look from the top (quite a few ideas, including many suggested here in comments). Alaska first, then to that.
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Post by lukedalton on May 19, 2018 18:49:38 GMT
LA is pretty huge and so there is a lot of time to run. Gold Base, home of an infamous cult, was up and running at this time down in the Coachella Valley: I'd imagine that those there wouldn't enjoy being under foreign occupation. A helicopter or a difficult trip over the mountains is the only way out for Hubbard and his ilk. Will we see FBI agents round up any members of the Communist Party USALooking at real life, them, plus anyone who even remotely looked friendly to the URSS, many latinos due to the infiltrators early in the war, various innocents; all in all they will arrest a wide range of people...except the real spies and commandos apart for some very low hanging one.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 21:29:39 GMT
Looking at real life, them, plus anyone who even remotely looked friendly to the URSS, many latinos due to the infiltrators early in the war, various innocents; all in all they will arrest a wide range of people...except the real spies and commandos apart for some very low hanging one. That begs the question, is the United States going to do with anybody who is a Mexicans and put them in camps like they did with the internment of Japanese Americans in WW II.
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Post by redrobin65 on May 20, 2018 1:11:44 GMT
there really was nothing left in the way between the Cubans and the Pacific… where Los Angeles was. Uh-Oh. Since the Cubans are in Palm Springs, does that mean that San Diego would be cut off?
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lordbyron
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Post by lordbyron on May 20, 2018 1:19:59 GMT
Good update, James G. BTW, I did a nukemap for the DC blasts, assuming that the 200-kiloton blasts were airburst for maximum effect, and the death toll was about 723,000 people, with nearly 1.5 million injured--of course, this is with today's population; in 1984, it'd be between 500,000 and 600,000 dead and over a million injured in D.C., with many of those dying due to injuries/aftereffects--combine that with the effects of the other nuclear blasts and fallout and the death toll would easily be over a million...
And it'll only get worse...
Waiting for more...
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Post by lukedalton on May 20, 2018 5:17:37 GMT
Looking at real life, them, plus anyone who even remotely looked friendly to the URSS, many latinos due to the infiltrators early in the war, various innocents; all in all they will arrest a wide range of people...except the real spies and commandos apart for some very low hanging one. That begs the question, is the United States going to do with anybody who is a Mexicans and put them in camps like they did with the internment of Japanese Americans in WW II. They probably try, even telling themselfs that's for their own protection against racist mob, the problem is the number of people involved; i don't know how much Mexicans and south americans (i doubt people will make any difference) were in the USA in 1985 but i suspect much much more than the WWII Japanese
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