lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 10, 2018 15:39:03 GMT
Even James Buchanan, the president who did nothing as the US slid into Civil War, would be telling Ted Kennedy to get off his ass and intervene in Mexico... Kennedy's probably going to top the list of worst presidents after this... It's only gonna get worse, of course... Waiting for more... Well i think you are right lordbyron, Kennedy has to do something, because it has now reach the doorstep of America. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 18:05:01 GMT
Even James Buchanan, the president who did nothing as the US slid into Civil War, would be telling Ted Kennedy to get off his ass and intervene in Mexico... Kennedy's probably going to top the list of worst presidents after this... It's only gonna get worse, of course... Waiting for more... He'll be talking tough soon enough. On the question of intervention, the issue aside (and its a big one) of him not wanting to, there is the how of any intervention. For what purpose? Liberate Mexico when the country is in a civil war? It too late now. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 18:05:38 GMT
Even James Buchanan, the president who did nothing as the US slid into Civil War, would be telling Ted Kennedy to get off his ass and intervene in Mexico... Kennedy's probably going to top the list of worst presidents after this... It's only gonna get worse, of course... Waiting for more... Well i think you are right lordbyron , Kennedy has to do something, because it has now reach the doorstep of America. Soon enough, it will be over though the door too... |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 18:05:52 GMT
(108)
March 1984:
The conflicts in El Salvador and Honduras were intentionally heated up. Outsiders were now fully directing events whereas before they had been influenced by them. The proxy wars were heading towards a finale. With that, as before, it was the innocents who lived in those two small Central American nations who would suffer. Chile was all alone in trying to keep the regime in El Salvador afloat when faced with Cuban interference. Meanwhile, Honduras’ dearth of allies was about to show how influential that was as Guatemala and Nicaragua finally made their moves to finish off the regime there as well. It was all coordinated. No longer were local circumstances dictating the actions of those outside: it was now the other way around. The regimes of Romero and Paz García didn’t have long left.
A Cuban missile team, disguised as guerrilla fighters yet who clearly were anything but by how they operated, shot down a Chilean transport aircraft lifting off from a military airfield near San Salvador. A man-portable SAM system was used to hit the C-130 Hercules and blew off much of the port wing. The aircraft came down hard and exploded in a massive fireball right on the edges of the city. It was full of fuel for the long trip home after a run made northwards carrying weapons and ammunition to keep Romero’s regime afloat in terms of being able to fight the guerrillas. Several days later, a Chilean ship which had just arrived at the port of Acajutla suffered an onboard explosion. This vessel was carrying munitions and there was an almighty secondary blast which caused death and destruction all across the harbour area. Acajutla had been targeted by the guerrillas beforehand where they had aimed to disrupt trade and attack the oil refinery but they had never managed to achieve anything like the chaos unleashed when the freighter blew up when stocked with all of that ammunition. It wasn’t the rebels which had hit that ship though like it wasn’t them who had shot down that transport aircraft: once again it was a Cuban attack made under the cover of El Salvador’s guerrillas. Chilean military personnel and sailors died in the twin attacks. Cuba wanted those deaths felt at home back in far off Chile. Castro’s intention was to make sure that Pinochet down in Santiago realised how costly the proxy war he was fighting up in Central America was for him. It was the rebels and not the Cubans who managed to assassinate a high-profile military officer later in the month on the streets of San Salvador though they would have been unable to claim such a scalp as Colonel d’Aubuisson without Cuban intelligence information. Romero and d’Aubuisson had a complicated relationship with the junior man a threat to his rule but still someone very useful in killing fellow Salvadorans for the dictator. That was to be no more. d’Aubuisson and nine others with him were gunned down inside their vehicle column when it was unexpectedly stopped and machine guns opened up from above them. It was a slaughter, something which d’Aubuisson knew all about.
Across in Honduras, there were border incidents along the frontier with Nicaragua where the latter country apparently came under attack. Nicaraguan forces, there to defend the country from alleged long-standing aggression from Honduras, where Honduras provided a base of operations for rebels against the regime in Managua, responded. They did so very fast too, almost as if they were ready to strike back against that mortar fire and sniping with the multiple crossings made of infantry backed up by armour. The truth be told, the only rebels in Honduras were native Hondurans fighting their own government and backed by Nicaragua: anti-Sandinista forces had long been eliminated inside Honduras. It was a false flag attack, a crude but effective one. A security zone was established inside Honduras by the Nicaraguan incursion and at points where if Nicaragua wanted to move deeper forward, say to launch a full invasion, they had excellent bridgeheads for that already established. Hundreds of Honduran soldiers were dead with hundreds more captured. The Hondurans had been taken wholly by surprise and routed. A joint demand was issued afterwards coming from Nicaragua joined by Guatemala. Honduras would turn over all citizens of both countries illegally inside Honduras who were engaged in armed rebellion against their homelands. Honduras had two weeks to comply, or else. That ‘or else’ wasn’t specified but there was no misunderstanding in Honduras what that meant. Paz García had no idea how to fulfil the desires of his two neighbours without seeing his country taken apart with Honduran sovereignty stolen. All he could do was refuse and prepare to fight even if that was doomed. There was always the hope that the international community would give a damn and step in to save the day. The chances of that happening? Not likely.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 10, 2018 18:15:19 GMT
(108)March 1984: The conflicts in El Salvador and Honduras were intentionally heated up. Outsiders were now fully directing events whereas before they had been influenced by them. The proxy wars were heading towards a finale. With that, as before, it was the innocents who lived in those two small Central American nations who would suffer. Chile was all alone in trying to keep the regime in El Salvador afloat when faced with Cuban interference. Meanwhile, Honduras’ dearth of allies was about to show how influential that was as Guatemala and Nicaragua finally made their moves to finish off the regime there as well. It was all coordinated. No longer were local circumstances dictating the actions of those outside: it was now the other way around. The regimes of Romero and Paz García didn’t have long left. A Cuban missile team, disguised as guerrilla fighters yet who clearly were anything but by how they operated, shot down a Chilean transport aircraft lifting off from a military airfield near San Salvador. A man-portable SAM system was used to hit the C-130 Hercules and blew off much of the port wing. The aircraft came down hard and exploded in a massive fireball right on the edges of the city. It was full of fuel for the long trip home after a run made northwards carrying weapons and ammunition to keep Romero’s regime afloat in terms of being able to fight the guerrillas. Several days later, a Chilean ship which had just arrived at the port of Acajutla suffered an onboard explosion. This vessel was carrying munitions and there was an almighty secondary blast which caused death and destruction all across the harbour area. Acajutla had been targeted by the guerrillas beforehand where they had aimed to disrupt trade and attack the oil refinery but they had never managed to achieve anything like the chaos unleashed when the freighter blew up when stocked with all of that ammunition. It wasn’t the rebels which had hit that ship though like it wasn’t them who had shot down that transport aircraft: once again it was a Cuban attack made under the cover of El Salvador’s guerrillas. Chilean military personnel and sailors died in the twin attacks. Cuba wanted those deaths felt at home back in far off Chile. Castro’s intention was to make sure that Pinochet down in Santiago realised how costly the proxy war he was fighting up in Central America was for him. It was the rebels and not the Cubans who managed to assassinate a high-profile military officer later in the month on the streets of San Salvador though they would have been unable to claim such a scalp as Colonel d’Aubuisson without Cuban intelligence information. Romero and d’Aubuisson had a complicated relationship with the junior man a threat to his rule but still someone very useful in killing fellow Salvadorans for the dictator. That was to be no more. d’Aubuisson and nine others with him were gunned down inside their vehicle column when it was unexpectedly stopped and machine guns opened up from above them. It was a slaughter, something which d’Aubuisson knew all about. Across in Honduras, there were border incidents along the frontier with Nicaragua where the latter country apparently came under attack. Nicaraguan forces, there to defend the country from alleged long-standing aggression from Honduras, where Honduras provided a base of operations for rebels against the regime in Managua, responded. They did so very fast too, almost as if they were ready to strike back against that mortar fire and sniping with the multiple crossings made of infantry backed up by armour. The truth be told, the only rebels in Honduras were native Hondurans fighting their own government and backed by Nicaragua: anti-Sandinista forces had long been eliminated inside Honduras. It was a false flag attack, a crude but effective one. A security zone was established inside Honduras by the Nicaraguan incursion and at points where if Nicaragua wanted to move deeper forward, say to launch a full invasion, they had excellent bridgeheads for that already established. Hundreds of Honduran soldiers were dead with hundreds more captured. The Hondurans had been taken wholly by surprise and routed. A joint demand was issued afterwards coming from Nicaragua joined by Guatemala. Honduras would turn over all citizens of both countries illegally inside Honduras who were engaged in armed rebellion against their homelands. Honduras had two weeks to comply, or else. That ‘or else’ wasn’t specified but there was no misunderstanding in Honduras what that meant. Paz García had no idea how to fulfil the desires of his two neighbours without seeing his country taken apart with Honduran sovereignty stolen. All he could do was refuse and prepare to fight even if that was doomed. There was always the hope that the international community would give a damn and step in to save the day. The chances of that happening? Not likely. Wow, the Cubans showing Pinochet that they do not want him to play, that is daring of them. |
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Post by lukedalton on Apr 10, 2018 18:27:03 GMT
(108)March 1984: The conflicts in El Salvador and Honduras were intentionally heated up. Outsiders were now fully directing events whereas before they had been influenced by them. The proxy wars were heading towards a finale. With that, as before, it was the innocents who lived in those two small Central American nations who would suffer. Chile was all alone in trying to keep the regime in El Salvador afloat when faced with Cuban interference. Meanwhile, Honduras’ dearth of allies was about to show how influential that was as Guatemala and Nicaragua finally made their moves to finish off the regime there as well. It was all coordinated. No longer were local circumstances dictating the actions of those outside: it was now the other way around. The regimes of Romero and Paz García didn’t have long left. A Cuban missile team, disguised as guerrilla fighters yet who clearly were anything but by how they operated, shot down a Chilean transport aircraft lifting off from a military airfield near San Salvador. A man-portable SAM system was used to hit the C-130 Hercules and blew off much of the port wing. The aircraft came down hard and exploded in a massive fireball right on the edges of the city. It was full of fuel for the long trip home after a run made northwards carrying weapons and ammunition to keep Romero’s regime afloat in terms of being able to fight the guerrillas. Several days later, a Chilean ship which had just arrived at the port of Acajutla suffered an onboard explosion. This vessel was carrying munitions and there was an almighty secondary blast which caused death and destruction all across the harbour area. Acajutla had been targeted by the guerrillas beforehand where they had aimed to disrupt trade and attack the oil refinery but they had never managed to achieve anything like the chaos unleashed when the freighter blew up when stocked with all of that ammunition. It wasn’t the rebels which had hit that ship though like it wasn’t them who had shot down that transport aircraft: once again it was a Cuban attack made under the cover of El Salvador’s guerrillas. Chilean military personnel and sailors died in the twin attacks. Cuba wanted those deaths felt at home back in far off Chile. Castro’s intention was to make sure that Pinochet down in Santiago realised how costly the proxy war he was fighting up in Central America was for him. It was the rebels and not the Cubans who managed to assassinate a high-profile military officer later in the month on the streets of San Salvador though they would have been unable to claim such a scalp as Colonel d’Aubuisson without Cuban intelligence information. Romero and d’Aubuisson had a complicated relationship with the junior man a threat to his rule but still someone very useful in killing fellow Salvadorans for the dictator. That was to be no more. d’Aubuisson and nine others with him were gunned down inside their vehicle column when it was unexpectedly stopped and machine guns opened up from above them. It was a slaughter, something which d’Aubuisson knew all about. Across in Honduras, there were border incidents along the frontier with Nicaragua where the latter country apparently came under attack. Nicaraguan forces, there to defend the country from alleged long-standing aggression from Honduras, where Honduras provided a base of operations for rebels against the regime in Managua, responded. They did so very fast too, almost as if they were ready to strike back against that mortar fire and sniping with the multiple crossings made of infantry backed up by armour. The truth be told, the only rebels in Honduras were native Hondurans fighting their own government and backed by Nicaragua: anti-Sandinista forces had long been eliminated inside Honduras. It was a false flag attack, a crude but effective one. A security zone was established inside Honduras by the Nicaraguan incursion and at points where if Nicaragua wanted to move deeper forward, say to launch a full invasion, they had excellent bridgeheads for that already established. Hundreds of Honduran soldiers were dead with hundreds more captured. The Hondurans had been taken wholly by surprise and routed. A joint demand was issued afterwards coming from Nicaragua joined by Guatemala. Honduras would turn over all citizens of both countries illegally inside Honduras who were engaged in armed rebellion against their homelands. Honduras had two weeks to comply, or else. That ‘or else’ wasn’t specified but there was no misunderstanding in Honduras what that meant. Paz García had no idea how to fulfil the desires of his two neighbours without seeing his country taken apart with Honduran sovereignty stolen. All he could do was refuse and prepare to fight even if that was doomed. There was always the hope that the international community would give a damn and step in to save the day. The chances of that happening? Not likely. Wow, the Cubans showing Pinochet that they do not want him to play, that is daring of them. Yes, too daring, there are limits at what an US president can permit and we had passed that limit a lot of time ago; hell even Trump at this stage will have done something to show to not be totally powerless expecially in an election year and frankly Kennedy is not that idiot. By now if the national guardsmen are not enough, they call the military unit 'redeployed' from Europe and position a Aircraft Carrier battlegroup in front of Manila Bay to point at everyone who really had the big gun here, as we have passed any possible red line. In Mexico you start launching a bombardment campaign against the rebels in support of the recognized govement and btw, making example of people never increased the morale of any army in the long term...having a cause it's the key and the reds here can have the advantage, but taking lesson from Uncle Joe mean only throw away the long term advantage for a short term shoots in the arm. Storywise, don't make Kennedy too idiot or too blind as it destroy the suspension of disbelief. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 19:55:49 GMT
(108)March 1984: The conflicts in El Salvador and Honduras were intentionally heated up. Outsiders were now fully directing events whereas before they had been influenced by them. The proxy wars were heading towards a finale. With that, as before, it was the innocents who lived in those two small Central American nations who would suffer. Chile was all alone in trying to keep the regime in El Salvador afloat when faced with Cuban interference. Meanwhile, Honduras’ dearth of allies was about to show how influential that was as Guatemala and Nicaragua finally made their moves to finish off the regime there as well. It was all coordinated. No longer were local circumstances dictating the actions of those outside: it was now the other way around. The regimes of Romero and Paz García didn’t have long left. A Cuban missile team, disguised as guerrilla fighters yet who clearly were anything but by how they operated, shot down a Chilean transport aircraft lifting off from a military airfield near San Salvador. A man-portable SAM system was used to hit the C-130 Hercules and blew off much of the port wing. The aircraft came down hard and exploded in a massive fireball right on the edges of the city. It was full of fuel for the long trip home after a run made northwards carrying weapons and ammunition to keep Romero’s regime afloat in terms of being able to fight the guerrillas. Several days later, a Chilean ship which had just arrived at the port of Acajutla suffered an onboard explosion. This vessel was carrying munitions and there was an almighty secondary blast which caused death and destruction all across the harbour area. Acajutla had been targeted by the guerrillas beforehand where they had aimed to disrupt trade and attack the oil refinery but they had never managed to achieve anything like the chaos unleashed when the freighter blew up when stocked with all of that ammunition. It wasn’t the rebels which had hit that ship though like it wasn’t them who had shot down that transport aircraft: once again it was a Cuban attack made under the cover of El Salvador’s guerrillas. Chilean military personnel and sailors died in the twin attacks. Cuba wanted those deaths felt at home back in far off Chile. Castro’s intention was to make sure that Pinochet down in Santiago realised how costly the proxy war he was fighting up in Central America was for him. It was the rebels and not the Cubans who managed to assassinate a high-profile military officer later in the month on the streets of San Salvador though they would have been unable to claim such a scalp as Colonel d’Aubuisson without Cuban intelligence information. Romero and d’Aubuisson had a complicated relationship with the junior man a threat to his rule but still someone very useful in killing fellow Salvadorans for the dictator. That was to be no more. d’Aubuisson and nine others with him were gunned down inside their vehicle column when it was unexpectedly stopped and machine guns opened up from above them. It was a slaughter, something which d’Aubuisson knew all about. Across in Honduras, there were border incidents along the frontier with Nicaragua where the latter country apparently came under attack. Nicaraguan forces, there to defend the country from alleged long-standing aggression from Honduras, where Honduras provided a base of operations for rebels against the regime in Managua, responded. They did so very fast too, almost as if they were ready to strike back against that mortar fire and sniping with the multiple crossings made of infantry backed up by armour. The truth be told, the only rebels in Honduras were native Hondurans fighting their own government and backed by Nicaragua: anti-Sandinista forces had long been eliminated inside Honduras. It was a false flag attack, a crude but effective one. A security zone was established inside Honduras by the Nicaraguan incursion and at points where if Nicaragua wanted to move deeper forward, say to launch a full invasion, they had excellent bridgeheads for that already established. Hundreds of Honduran soldiers were dead with hundreds more captured. The Hondurans had been taken wholly by surprise and routed. A joint demand was issued afterwards coming from Nicaragua joined by Guatemala. Honduras would turn over all citizens of both countries illegally inside Honduras who were engaged in armed rebellion against their homelands. Honduras had two weeks to comply, or else. That ‘or else’ wasn’t specified but there was no misunderstanding in Honduras what that meant. Paz García had no idea how to fulfil the desires of his two neighbours without seeing his country taken apart with Honduran sovereignty stolen. All he could do was refuse and prepare to fight even if that was doomed. There was always the hope that the international community would give a damn and step in to save the day. The chances of that happening? Not likely. Wow, the Cubans showing Pinochet that they do not want him to play, that is daring of them. Castro is committed down and Chile is a long way away. Chile was left high and dry by its own allies in supporting El Salvador and Cuba hopes Pinochet will walk away as well. Yes, too daring, there are limits at what an US president can permit and we had passed that limit a lot of time ago; hell even Trump at this stage will have done something to show to not be totally powerless expecially in an election year and frankly Kennedy is not that idiot. By now if the national guardsmen are not enough, they call the military unit 'redeployed' from Europe and position a Aircraft Carrier battlegroup in front of Manila Bay to point at everyone who really had the big gun here, as we have passed any possible red line. In Mexico you start launching a bombardment campaign against the rebels in support of the recognized govement and btw, making example of people never increased the morale of any army in the long term...having a cause it's the key and the reds here can have the advantage, but taking lesson from Uncle Joe mean only throw away the long term advantage for a short term shoots in the arm. Storywise, don't make Kennedy too idiot or too blind as it destroy the suspension of disbelief. I'll take your comments onboard. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 19:56:06 GMT
(109)
March 1984:
Libya hit back against Egypt. Colonel Gadhafi responded to military attacks with those of his own. He ordered the launch of Scud missiles – short-range, ballistic weapons with a high-explosive warhead – against the encampments of Egyptian troops just over the border. Mobile launchers, trucks moving across the desert, fired their missiles and moved fast afterwards to get out of the way of retaliation expected to be coming their way. Less than a third of those missiles hit their targets: Libyan-operated Scuds were never going to be very accurate. To follow this up, there was an attack made by Blinder bombers against Mersa Matruh airbase afterwards. It was from there, halfway to Alexandria, that many of the attacking Egyptian jets had flown last month on their attack missions against Libya. The Blinders made low-level runs and dropped bombs across the facility. There was last-minute warning of the incoming air raid and personnel rushed to shelter thus saving the lives of many. As to the Egyptian aircraft, they were all in their own special shelters with the bombs not scratching them: Egypt had learnt the lesson they had been taught at Israeli hands back in 1967. Egypt’s air defence network had been penetrated well though there did come warning in the end of the attack and there was also the defensive fire which the Blinders came under when on their way home. Two of the three bombers sent against Mersa Matruh were brought down. The Egyptians used Soviet-supplied SAMs to eliminate Soviet-supplied aircraft. The missile and bomber attacks brought about an Egyptian response with another big air strike against Libya. Libya would then strike a counterblow with Scuds again plus the use of tactical aircraft. It was again mainly Soviet-supplied weapons being used by both sides with one still an ally of Moscow and another no longer one. Ammunition expenditure was high and so was the rate of high-tech military equipment lost. Along the majority of the long Egyptian-Libyan frontier, there was quiet on the ground. That wasn’t the case up in the north, near to the sea. It was there were British and Italian armies – later those of the Germans led by Rommel – had seen action in World War Two. The area started to resemble the staging ground for World War Three. Libyan cross-border shelling was met with Egypt bringing in heavy artillery and rockets as well. Troops and tanks arrived with Libya sending so much of what it had while Egypt could only deploy part of its army with so much of that still in Saudi Arabia. A real war would benefit neither country, even in victory if such a thing could be won over the other in these circumstances. They were pushing closer and closer towards one though. Their superpower backers overseas were eager for this all to blow over but were unable to bring things to a stop without the fear that to do so might set into action a chain reaction leading to an eventuality which they wouldn’t like in geo-political terms.
What was feared across Eastern Europe started in Romania first with Poland following soon enough. The state cutbacks brought forward trouble when the pinch was felt. This was all a long time coming though the growing recession brought on by the Wall Street Crash only accelerated things. Romania saw violence in response to food & energy rationing commence while in Poland it was to do with the increases in prices for food & the announcements that wages were to be cut with the start there not being direct violence but protests and strikes. Industrial sector workers in both countries were at the root of the protests with those in Romania being unorganised and fast to turn to violence. Polish workers did what they had done before, back when they had ‘won’ in 1980, and went on strike. They intended it to be peaceful but soon in came the riot police who were under orders to crack heads. Polish workers had organised resistance to such attacks beforehand and put their planning into practise where they battled the goons of the state. Romania went straight to violence and the blood flowed freely. Kociołek appealed to his people on state media to obey the law and return to work: think of Poland before yourselves. A different approach was tried by Ceausescu where he let the guns in the hands of the security forces do the work. The Romanians got things under control. The Polish Government failed to do so.
As can be expected, the Soviets took notice of events in both countries but in Poland especially. Andropov’s move to calm the situation years ago by installing Kociołek had worked then but all that had done had created a situation where the Polish people hated their government even more than before. They’d been waiting for this opportunity. The rioting across Poland also hit the many military-related factories established nationwide in recent years. The Soviet Union had given Poland employment for its workers – good jobs too – making ships, artillery and military-use trucks (the need for high numbers of these exclusively for the needs of the Soviet Armed Forces was shown in Iran). None of these workers were directly affected by the state cutbacks. Favoritism had been shown by Kociołek to these workers so that he wouldn’t upset Moscow. That backfired. They went out in sympathy strikes and shut down production rather than be bribed. The protesters kept coming out even when the riot police attacked each time and arrested hundreds upon hundreds. Banners were raised among the crowds who marched where they carried images of Pope John Paul II – long dead after the Vatican Fire, one which everyone in Poland knew was murder – but also demands for political freedom and an end to oppression. They kept organizing as well even when there were disappearances among their number of key people. Poland was full of Soviet troops, many of them having redeployed from East Germany. There were more Soviet troops inside countries on each of Poland’s borders. None of them were involved in combatting the trouble across the nation. It was an all-Polish affair with even the KGB staying out of it all. The orders from Moscow were that this was an internal Polish affair, for now at least anyway. However, that was the current Soviet opinion on Poland… one which could easily change.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 10, 2018 20:01:48 GMT
Wow, the Cubans showing Pinochet that they do not want him to play, that is daring of them. Yes, too daring, there are limits at what an US president can permit and we had passed that limit a lot of time ago; hell even Trump at this stage will have done something to show to not be totally powerless expecially in an election year and frankly Kennedy is not that idiot. By now if the national guardsmen are not enough, they call the military unit 'redeployed' from Europe and position a Aircraft Carrier battlegroup in front of Manila Bay to point at everyone who really had the big gun here, as we have passed any possible red line. In Mexico you start launching a bombardment campaign against the rebels in support of the recognized govement and btw, making example of people never increased the morale of any army in the long term...having a cause it's the key and the reds here can have the advantage, but taking lesson from Uncle Joe mean only throw away the long term advantage for a short term shoots in the arm. Storywise, don't make Kennedy too idiot or too blind as it destroy the suspension of disbelief. I fear that Kennedy would be too reluctant to admit he was wrong and that there was major communist intervention in the region.  Weak men are always very slow to say "I was wrong". Also with Mexico in melt down I suspect he would think Honduras too insignificant to matter at the moment. Which leave one question James. With the communists triumphant across virtually all the isthmus what has happened to poor unarmed Costa Rico? I fear it wouldn't have much chance of surviving especially since Panama is controlled by a fool who thinks he can ally with the communists. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 21:10:08 GMT
Yes, too daring, there are limits at what an US president can permit and we had passed that limit a lot of time ago; hell even Trump at this stage will have done something to show to not be totally powerless expecially in an election year and frankly Kennedy is not that idiot. By now if the national guardsmen are not enough, they call the military unit 'redeployed' from Europe and position a Aircraft Carrier battlegroup in front of Manila Bay to point at everyone who really had the big gun here, as we have passed any possible red line. In Mexico you start launching a bombardment campaign against the rebels in support of the recognized govement and btw, making example of people never increased the morale of any army in the long term...having a cause it's the key and the reds here can have the advantage, but taking lesson from Uncle Joe mean only throw away the long term advantage for a short term shoots in the arm. Storywise, don't make Kennedy too idiot or too blind as it destroy the suspension of disbelief. I fear that Kennedy would be too reluctant to admit he was wrong and that there was major communist intervention in the region. Weak men are always very slow to say "I was wrong". Also with Mexico in melt down I suspect he would think Honduras too insignificant to matter at the moment. Which leave one question James. With the communists triumphant across virtually all the isthmus what has happened to poor unarmed Costa Rico? I fear it wouldn't have much chance of surviving especially since Panama is controlled by a fool who thinks he can ally with the communists. That was my thinking too. It was why I chose Kennedy when there could have been lightweight options for a president who could be fooled - Jerry Brown would be an example; he ran for president and was slightly crazy - but with someone like that they would reverse track when it got serious. Kennedy, IMO, would have had the attitude to deny he was wrong until he was far too late. El Salvador and Honduras don't matter at the moment when all eyes are on Mexico and North Africa... and soon to be on Eastern Europe plus elsewhere as several long-running issues/crisis' erupt. I've left Costa Rica alone. I have an unexplainable affinity for the nation! I should address that country and its role where it is ducking down and keeping quiet. As to Noriega, he will regret his decision in the end. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Apr 10, 2018 21:13:10 GMT
(110)
March 1984:
A meeting of the UN Security Council where the Egypt-Libya conflict was being urgently discussed saw Gromyko and Mondale meet once more for face-to-face talks. Ambassadors to the UN from both countries had done the finger-pointing in public; behind the scenes, the two of them met where there was the expectation that, as before, agreements could be reached when taking this opportunity to talk. That wasn’t to be the case this time. There were clashes between allies of the Soviet Union and the United States in North Africa with the belief that it was down to the other side’s ally not their own. Gromyko and Mondale each said that their ally was the aggrieved party and had the right to defend themselves. They resorted to doing in private what was being done in public and got nowhere with it. Such a beginning led to disagreement on the other matter up for discussion, that being Mexico. It was Cuba and the other Latin American socialist nations who were supporting revolutionary Mexico, Mondale told Gromyko, and without their support, the fighting in Mexico would end. That wasn’t the case came the retort: Mexico was undergoing a revolution and it was an internal matter for Mexico, not the United States nor anyone else. Those countries were the allies of the Soviet Union and would be unable to act like they were in Mexico without the support of the Cubans and others. No, that wasn’t the case: as said, it was an internal Mexico matter. Gromyko added to his response to Mondale there that the language used by the US Government recently when it came to Mexico and Cuba, by President Kennedy, alarmed the Soviet Government. Those were sovereign countries and the threatening comments made against them from Washington should cease. There was a denial from Mondale on that interpretation and also a repeat of his earlier remarks when it came to how the foreign interference in Mexico needed to cease. He ended the meeting by informing Gromyko that the United States wouldn’t sit idly by while the violence in Mexico continued and there was still foreign interference taking place. Mexico was a major concern for the United States and his country would act accordingly. Gromyko’s parting words were those of a warning of the conflict growing should that happen and one which everyone would regret.
When Gromyko would return to Moscow and discuss this with the Politburo, he explained how it must be understood that a lot of what was happening in the United States at the moment with the behaviour of their government was to do with their internal economic troubles and the upcoming sham election of theirs. Kennedy needed to talk tough but he was weak and wouldn’t act. There was no need for concern. Cuba and Nicaragua understood that they weren’t to get anymore involved than they had been in Mexico either. Therefore, the strain in relations at the moment was a temporary one. His colleagues discussed therefore how to proceed. Castro and the Ortega brothers would be once again reminded to stay clear of Mexico even if their frontman in the form of Tirado López was eventually forced from power. Mexico in revolution wasn’t what was wanted. No Soviet-supplied arms were to be ‘diverted’ to Mexico and there certainly wouldn’t be any use of Soviet assets to sent troops there either. The Americans with Kennedy acting like he was at the minute might defy all expectations and strike at Cuba. Decades of peace with the West could be shattered with that. The Politburo did agree that they were stronger than the United States in force of arms and that the Americans had put themselves in a bad situation with their relations with allies. If something overtly hostile was done by the Americans against the Soviet Union, then, naturally, they would emerge victorious in the end. Ustinov reminded them of that. He had built that series of strong military defensive forces and the Soviet Armed Forces were unchallengeable. There was no need for conflict though, he said, and avoiding that was key. Chebrikov – still smarting over not getting the crown but with influence remaining – floated an idea for the future: if Kennedy tried to do something stupid and threaten the peace, bully the Soviet Union, there were always other measures that could be enacted to distract him at home and abroad. The decisions made here on how things would go were final as far as the Politburo saw it for they were in control of events.
The fighting continued in Mexico. Veracruz was a blow for the Northern Alliance and it was followed by the communists taking Tampico, another port on the Gulf of Mexico. Again, it was the inability of the fighting men of the Northern Alliance to do that, fight, which caused the second defeat on the battlefield. The communists were lucky once again. They shouldn’t have been able to win by overcoming a numerically-stronger force in a good defensive position (the geography for the defenders was excellent), when they had their own internal issues too, but Northern Alliance soldiers abandoned the fight at Tampico like they had done at Veracruz. The communists were able to march onwards. They came across a treasure-trove when going through the positions which their opponents had abandoned after a short exchange of fire. What Northern Alliance soldiers hadn’t deserted had pulled out and left a lot of military equipment behind in their hurry. Supply officers for the communists, who weren’t having a good time before Tampico in trying to equip the army in which they served, finally had something to smile about. Weapons, ammunition and supplies had been left for them to get their hands on. This could all make up for a lot – seeing the enemy run was good for morale too – yet the communist forces remained weak overall. They had their own problems with soldiers oftentimes unwilling to fight unless they were urged on. Being ‘urged on’ had seen the shooting of some men as examples which most often worked though not always. Initial publicising of this to improve discipline – the shootings will continue until morale improves! – was seen as a failure too. It didn’t work. What did work was to keep advancing and attacking forwards. Northern Alliance soldiers had no heart to them. Communist soldiers liked to win.
Losing Veracruz and then Tampico were blows from which the Monterrey Government were going to struggle to recover from. They were on the defensive and failing at that. Any hope of serious offensive action was impossible at this time. The alliance of states across the country was physically split into four component parts. Rumours came to Monterrey and President Herzog Flores that those in Sinaloa and Yucatán were discussing the possibility of giving in to Tirado López. His emissaries had been busy promising amnesty. Adding to these woes, Herzog Flores had to deal with the Americans and their demands that he stop the flow of refugees. It was from Northern Alliance territory that those Mexican civilians fled from. Stop them, Washington said. It was explained to the president that the political pressure on Kennedy was immense to act and while not all of that came from the refugee issue, that was a strong factor in that. That couldn’t be done though. The communists couldn’t be stopped from advancing and the refugees couldn’t be stopped from also going north. There was only one solution short of surrendering to the communist usurper. That was to ask the United States for direct military assistance. Herzog Flores would do just that.
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jasonsnow
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Post by jasonsnow on Apr 10, 2018 22:51:45 GMT
(108)March 1984: The conflicts in El Salvador and Honduras were intentionally heated up. Outsiders were now fully directing events whereas before they had been influenced by them. The proxy wars were heading towards a finale. With that, as before, it was the innocents who lived in those two small Central American nations who would suffer. Chile was all alone in trying to keep the regime in El Salvador afloat when faced with Cuban interference. Meanwhile, Honduras’ dearth of allies was about to show how influential that was as Guatemala and Nicaragua finally made their moves to finish off the regime there as well. It was all coordinated. No longer were local circumstances dictating the actions of those outside: it was now the other way around. The regimes of Romero and Paz García didn’t have long left. A Cuban missile team, disguised as guerrilla fighters yet who clearly were anything but by how they operated, shot down a Chilean transport aircraft lifting off from a military airfield near San Salvador. A man-portable SAM system was used to hit the C-130 Hercules and blew off much of the port wing. The aircraft came down hard and exploded in a massive fireball right on the edges of the city. It was full of fuel for the long trip home after a run made northwards carrying weapons and ammunition to keep Romero’s regime afloat in terms of being able to fight the guerrillas. Several days later, a Chilean ship which had just arrived at the port of Acajutla suffered an onboard explosion. This vessel was carrying munitions and there was an almighty secondary blast which caused death and destruction all across the harbour area. Acajutla had been targeted by the guerrillas beforehand where they had aimed to disrupt trade and attack the oil refinery but they had never managed to achieve anything like the chaos unleashed when the freighter blew up when stocked with all of that ammunition. It wasn’t the rebels which had hit that ship though like it wasn’t them who had shot down that transport aircraft: once again it was a Cuban attack made under the cover of El Salvador’s guerrillas. Chilean military personnel and sailors died in the twin attacks. Cuba wanted those deaths felt at home back in far off Chile. Castro’s intention was to make sure that Pinochet down in Santiago realised how costly the proxy war he was fighting up in Central America was for him. It was the rebels and not the Cubans who managed to assassinate a high-profile military officer later in the month on the streets of San Salvador though they would have been unable to claim such a scalp as Colonel d’Aubuisson without Cuban intelligence information. Romero and d’Aubuisson had a complicated relationship with the junior man a threat to his rule but still someone very useful in killing fellow Salvadorans for the dictator. That was to be no more. d’Aubuisson and nine others with him were gunned down inside their vehicle column when it was unexpectedly stopped and machine guns opened up from above them. It was a slaughter, something which d’Aubuisson knew all about. Across in Honduras, there were border incidents along the frontier with Nicaragua where the latter country apparently came under attack. Nicaraguan forces, there to defend the country from alleged long-standing aggression from Honduras, where Honduras provided a base of operations for rebels against the regime in Managua, responded. They did so very fast too, almost as if they were ready to strike back against that mortar fire and sniping with the multiple crossings made of infantry backed up by armour. The truth be told, the only rebels in Honduras were native Hondurans fighting their own government and backed by Nicaragua: anti-Sandinista forces had long been eliminated inside Honduras. It was a false flag attack, a crude but effective one. A security zone was established inside Honduras by the Nicaraguan incursion and at points where if Nicaragua wanted to move deeper forward, say to launch a full invasion, they had excellent bridgeheads for that already established. Hundreds of Honduran soldiers were dead with hundreds more captured. The Hondurans had been taken wholly by surprise and routed. A joint demand was issued afterwards coming from Nicaragua joined by Guatemala. Honduras would turn over all citizens of both countries illegally inside Honduras who were engaged in armed rebellion against their homelands. Honduras had two weeks to comply, or else. That ‘or else’ wasn’t specified but there was no misunderstanding in Honduras what that meant. Paz García had no idea how to fulfil the desires of his two neighbours without seeing his country taken apart with Honduran sovereignty stolen. All he could do was refuse and prepare to fight even if that was doomed. There was always the hope that the international community would give a damn and step in to save the day. The chances of that happening? Not likely. Y tho. |
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Apr 11, 2018 3:10:43 GMT
(110)That was to ask the United States for direct military assistance. Herzog Flores would do just that. I doubt the United States under Kennedy is going to do that. |
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raunchel
Commander
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Post by raunchel on Apr 11, 2018 5:35:00 GMT
(110)That was to ask the United States for direct military assistance. Herzog Flores would do just that. I doubt the United States under Kennedy is going to do that. I'm not sure. If such a request is made publicly, in an election year, and phrased in the right way (and thoroughly used by the Republicans), it can be hard to do nothing. Bit then again, Kennedy is stubborn and his political opponents jumping on it could force him to stay at his position. But that will make re-election incredibly hard. But then again, his successor could very well try to succeed him as worst president. |
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Apr 11, 2018 6:09:23 GMT
(110)That was to ask the United States for direct military assistance. Herzog Flores would do just that. I doubt the United States under Kennedy is going to do that. I'm not sure. If such a request is made publicly, in an election year, and phrased in the right way (and thoroughly used by the Republicans), it can be hard to do nothing. Bit then again, Kennedy is stubborn and his political opponents jumping on it could force him to stay at his position. But that will make re-election incredibly hard. But then again, his successor could very well try to succeed him as worst president. It is going to be an interesting couple of months indeed with this situation. |
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Weak men are always very slow to say "I was wrong". Also with Mexico in melt down I suspect he would think Honduras too insignificant to matter at the moment.
