stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 31, 2018 14:09:52 GMT
That's like saying they offered a band aid to a severed artery. Plus has James actually mentioned financial aid? There has been some intel and possibly humanitarian actions and some supply although where sent for free or with the expectation of payment its unclear. Basically they bailed out of a treaty that they had been members of for 30+ years because it was convenient for them. Which means no matter their economic position when the conflict ends their word will be worth very little as they have shown they can't be trusted.
The financial aid has been keeping the entire world economy from going even more down the rabbit hole, with the USA being attacked and the Dollar aka the world principal currency being under litteral attack, not considering the panicking and a lot of capital running away. Basically Glen will have needed a lot of cooperation to make things not going even more to hell in this month and this mean cooperate with Bruxelles.
That didn't answer my question? Has James actually mentioned such aid - to the allies - or are you assuming it. Plus is it clear its aid or just loans say?
They have done a little in a major crisis yes but as you say its very much in their interests to keep the allies protecting them and your suggesting that position is about to collapse.
Dubious. On legal grounds if the forces of a combatant enters a neutral nation in retreat say that nation is responsible for interning them. However if the forces of a nation that has just been attack is in the territory of an ally before that attack and that ally suddenly says we're ditching our alliance because it suits us that is a different matter.
On practical grounds there are two even greater problems here. As you say the bloc has relied on the allies to defend them so stopping substantial allied forces from leaving their suddenly changed position would be a serious home goal. Even more to the point if your nation has been attacked, you want to defend it and the nation(s) who have just deserted you declare their going to stop you returning home to help in your countries defence I think you can guess how that would go down. How many bloc soldiers would be willing to attack allied forces seeking to leave their country and the political fall-out would be huge.
Except your just argued you are certain they won't. Their going to be smashed up at least as bad as the US and probably markedly worse with Denmark, most of W Germany and quite possibly a good chunk of the Netherlands being occupied after heavy fighting and much of the rest subjected to much more firepower than Britain has. If things go as you suggest the question would be how much would the allies - most noticeably the US and Japan and possibly CANZ - be able and willing to spend to help the former neutral bloc rebuild if its at the cost of their own people and allies? Your been commenting about how the bloc would rule the roost because it would be the major undamaged economic region but if your right that's going right out the window.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 31, 2018 14:11:13 GMT
Please stop arguing. You guys are writing more than I am and trying to follow this dispute is leaving me frustrated.
Apologise, I've just posted and seen this message. As I said a while back I'm willing to call a truce if luke will.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2018 15:05:37 GMT
Please stop arguing. You guys are writing more than I am and trying to follow this dispute is leaving me frustrated. I agree, gentlemen, please follow James advice and keep discussion focus on the timeline and enjoy it as we must be glad that James takes time and effort to keep posting it on Alternate Timelines. |
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Post by lukedalton on Oct 31, 2018 17:58:23 GMT
Please stop arguing. You guys are writing more than I am and trying to follow this dispute is leaving me frustrated.
Apologise, I've just posted and seen this message. As I said a while back I'm willing to call a truce if luke will.
truce |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2018 18:10:33 GMT
Apologise, I've just posted and seen this message. As I said a while back I'm willing to call a truce if luke will.
truce Good idea for everybody, now let’s get back to discussing the war. I have a question, how long can Hong King survive the flood of refugees who are flooding the crown colony. |
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 31, 2018 18:30:40 GMT
Good idea for everybody, now let’s get back to discussing the war. I have a question, how long can Hong King survive the flood of refugees who are flooding the crown colony. Not long. A refugee flood of several millions Will be able to bring a medium country to its knees at the best of times and Hong Kong is niether that big nor in a good situation. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2018 19:01:48 GMT
Good idea for everybody, now let’s get back to discussing the war. I have a question, how long can Hong King survive the flood of refugees who are flooding the crown colony. Not long. A refugee flood of several millions Will be able to bring a medium country to its knees at the best of times and Hong Kong is niether that big nor in a good situation. So massive riots, food shortages and all that stuff. |
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 31, 2018 19:16:20 GMT
Not long. A refugee flood of several millions Will be able to bring a medium country to its knees at the best of times and Hong Kong is niether that big nor in a good situation. So massive riots, food shortages and all that stuff. Plus Soviet bombing if they feel like it. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2018 19:22:12 GMT
So massive riots, food shortages and all that stuff. Plus Soviet bombing if they feel like it. Why would the Soviets bomb Hong Kong, there is not military benefit to it. |
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 31, 2018 19:42:08 GMT
Plus Soviet bombing if they feel like it. Why would the Soviets bomb Hong Kong, there is not military benefit to it. More chaos. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2018 19:45:25 GMT
Why would the Soviets bomb Hong Kong, there is not military benefit to it. More chaos. I think by now all of China minus Taiwan is in chaos. |
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 31, 2018 19:51:36 GMT
I think by now all of China minus Taiwan is in chaos. It is but weakening the British presence in Asia can't hurt. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 31, 2018 19:52:23 GMT
Apologise, I've just posted and seen this message. As I said a while back I'm willing to call a truce if luke will.
truce
Agreed.  |
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 31, 2018 20:16:37 GMT
I chose Haftar, Field Marshal Haftar in fact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalifa_Haftar), because he is one of the world's great survivors. He is a sneaky git and if anyone could get away with it, he could, though not in the most easiest way. He is not someone anyway, let alone the USSR, would want as an ally: probably worse than Gaddafi would be for them. The thermobarics are earlier versions of the Father Of All Bombs. They'd need a Tu-95 to drop and if any of those are allowed free rein deep inside Britain / France or any big Western nation, those countries are in trouble. The skies over another nation are open though... see below. Ah, I forgot. He himself would have been sent back as that was unauthorised on both ends and broke many regulations. I suspect it is going on. I'd need to think about how and where. Some French officers might be 'on leave' maybe in Norway and elsewhere... possibly Canada. I'd need to think more on that. Ideas are welcome.
Good to hear about the impracticality of the thermobarics bombs over Britain being impractical, at least for the near future and hopefully that will be long enough. Does sound like China's in for another battering,  although they might be less destructive than being hammered by nukes and chemical weapons.
I suspect that Hu will last longer than the Soviet will to continue the war but it could be a close run thing and China's going to be one hell of a mess afterwards. Even if Hu's government collapses I don't rate Taiwanese chances much, especially if its without western support after a Soviet collapse. For one thing having been seen to 'side' with the Soviets their going to be distrusted and for another just a few tactical nukes could screw any military chances they have and I don't think the Taiwanese will have any more certainty than the Soviets that all the CCP weapons are accounted for. At this point I suspect the CCP don't know that either.
Will you be resolving the future of Sweden and of whether some/all the neutral bloc enters the conflict as Luke and me are going in circles at the moment. As I say, much as I would like them to get involved, one way or another, to take some pressure off the allies, it seems unlikely given the current situation and if the Black sea fleet reaches Gibraltar that does suggest their either won decisively in Italy [which seems unlikely] or the bloc is still neutral.
With the volunteers I'm think the primary need is for anything to support the RAF in holding back the Soviet air and naval units in the Atlantic. Not only is Britain itself getting a battering and supplies from further away than Europe probably being virtually impossible cutting reinforcements to N America is important to enable the US to clear its homeland so that it can support its allies on other fronts. As without that or the neutral bloc doing a 180, Britain isn't going to be able to do it on its own and if the Black Sea fleet get active Iberia is going to be in for a rougher time as well.
On the naming a suitable alternative would be acceptable as it would save a lot of hassle.
As has always been the case with wars in China, these things just go on and on. The country is too big for a limited war for political objectives to win. Should Taiwan take that step, it won't end well for them in the long-term. There remains the good chance of instant sunshine from the Chinese too. I will be returning to Sweden then Gibraltar Straits in about a week / ten days. By the end of this year IRL, all questions will be answered as I plan to finish by that point. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 31, 2018 20:20:48 GMT
Good idea for everybody, now let’s get back to discussing the war. I have a question, how long can Hong King survive the flood of refugees who are flooding the crown colony. Not long. A refugee flood of several millions Will be able to bring a medium country to its knees at the best of times and Hong Kong is niether that big nor in a good situation. So massive riots, food shortages and all that stuff. Plus Soviet bombing if they feel like it. Why would the Soviets bomb Hong Kong, there is not military benefit to it. I think by now all of China minus Taiwan is in chaos. It is but weakening the British presence in Asia can't hurt. I think Hong Kong will be in chaos. So many Chinese are seeking safety and they will care not for any obstruction. Some will be armed too. There are British forces there plus local volunteers but they are outnumbered horrible. The people will pour in if not overland then by boat. I think too that the Soviets would have struck there, even at long-range. It is an Allied garrison - with a port and airports - on the mainland of Asia. An attack too will cause the British to consider sending more forces which can only benefit the overall war. |
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although they might be less destructive than being hammered by nukes and chemical weapons.