James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Oct 20, 2018 18:54:17 GMT
(266)December 1984: Louisiana General Schwarzkopf’s US V Corps had close to half of its strength formed from national guard units at the end of last month though through December, the balance towards regular elements of the US Army in terms of numbers tilted towards the latter. No significant combat reinforcement came to the American force along the Sabine River facing the Soviets who were over on the other side of that waterway across in Texas. Instead, Schwarzkopf received several thousand additional personnel joining units of the V Corps, men who were previously injured in the early stages of the war. These were personnel who’d been hurt in the fighting and evacuated to the rear where they had been treated for those wounds. Men who had incurred bone fractures, concussions, certain burn injures and such like had been released from medical care – many others hadn’t and wouldn’t see any more of this war – to return to the fight. These were often men from units eventually destroyed in battle through Texas. The men which the V Corps received had been with combat units such as the 1st Cavalry, 2nd Armored and 3rd Armored Divisions plus support elements which had been part of the disestablished Fifth United States Army. Upon being released from medical care, there had been initial ideas to see them sent to the training formations getting ready to field the Army of the United States (ARUS) next year yet a change in that plan had seen them returned to the front now. The US VII Corps up in North Texas received some of them too, doing so because as like Schwarzkopf’s command this other corps was towards the very top of priorities for supply and reinforcement (the very top had first been the US XVIII Corps but was now the US XI Corps: those fighting around Denver and through Colorado). This all mattered greatly. Where the V Corps was on that list of priorities meant that in addition to the men brought into to fill out gaps and replace the dead & other injured who’d been lost from units under command now, Schwarzkopf was also receiving large deliveries of supplies. This allowed the fight to continue during the winter here near the Gulf Coast. The V Corps was mainly in Louisiana though maintained bridgeheads on the other side of the Sabine across in Texas. Significant military actions could take place, just short of real offensive operations as the supplies only stretched so far. Orders coming down from Texas Command through the Third US Army told Schwarzkopf that these were to be ‘restrained’ due to the bigger picture. This wasn’t something that could be disobeyed though at the same time there was flexibility available. The 24th Infantry Division – Schwarzkopf’s former command – extended their bridgehead around the city of Orange. The Georgian national guardsmen with the division were used to hold the positions facing south and west while the regulars pushed northwards to reach the line of Interstate-10 which ran lateral up ahead. The highway bridges going over the Sabine were long down and the stretch of the interstate full of abandoned & burnt-out civilian vehicles, making it not useable for now, but it was something for the future once cleared and repairs. An opportunity to attack had come due to American monitoring of Soviet movements nearby where their weakened units were trying to rearrange themselves and during that, Schwarzkopf had his men strike. Victory was won after a short two-day fight where the size of the Orange bridgehead was increased by near fifty per cent. What Schwarzkopf wanted to do in addition, and what the First Army refused to see take place, was for the 5th Infantry Division to go back to Kirbyville. Only part of that formation was on the Texan side of the Sabine, concentrated around Burkeville and Buckhorn when in the Lone Star State. Before the Geneva-organised moratorium on any more use of chemicals, one of the division’s brigades had been heavily-targeted by the Soviets with gas when in Kirbyville and retreated back from there further to the east and nearer to Louisiana. Going forward again, when additional men were added to secure the communications network around that town with its road & rail links, was denied from above. The additional men were deemed by Schwarzkopf to be able to do that: First Army said no. Come New Year, yes but before then the beefed-up 2nd Brigade (hit by gas before) along with the 1st Brigade and Louisiana’s 256th Brigade were to stay where they were either side of the Louisiana-Texas state-line. Schwarzkopf had to follow his orders on this. Back over in Louisiana, the support elements of the V Corps, which would be needed before Schwarzkopf could do anything further than extending his bridgeheads, remained reforming as much as possible. The supply, transportation, communications, vehicle maintenance units and so on had suffered many loses when the V Corps had been fighting elsewhere in Texas and the 3rd Armored had been lost trying to stop the Soviets from getting their tanks to really destroy them. Those returning soldiers joined these units as well, adding to service-personnel who’d been discharged from service before the war and officers on who’d been staff courses or liaison duties elsewhere. There were still equipment shortages yet everyday these got less as deliveries occurred of what could be spared for a high-priority force like the V Corps. This build-up ready to support the fighting troops once they went back on the offensive once again took place in the southwestern corner of the state yet across the whole of Louisiana there was a major military presence. There were flight operations being conducted from Barksdale AFB, England AFB and NAS New Orleans. Twelfth Air Force strikes were made into Texas, focusing especially on getting through enemy fighters trying to stop hits being made against the ongoing presence of shipping using captured port facilities along the coast. The Soviets responded in kind with their own air attacks made into Louisiana. They focused on trying to hit those airbases as well as going after bridges over the Red River to cut communications and the Louisiana Army Ammunition Plant too. The latter was a hive of activity, nothing like what was seen in World War Two during the plant’s heyday but still very busy. The plant avoided getting seriously hit by Soviet air strikes yet there were some close calls and many US Air Force aircraft were lost in those. Elsewhere, the Soviets went after the Port of New Orleans too. Connections to the outside world afar from here were cut but New Orleans connected inland along the Mississippi River up deep into the American heartland. Movement of shipping up and down this river had always been important and continued during wartime. Wartime production through the Mid-West was connected down the course of the river into Louisiana. Two big attempts were made to hit New Orleans and the second of those did manage to get through where major damage was done there. Getting back out for those aircraft wasn’t easy though and several were brought down making sure than another raid like this wouldn’t take place for a while. Louisiana’s Gulf Coast consisted of its wetlands, a significant swampy area. December brought the usual heavy rains to the area. Under that weather, instances of fighting took place with sudden engagements taking place at various points. Soviet raiding forces were inserted by air (parachute drops or helicopters dashing forward) and also on small boats coming from Texas. V Corps was tied up with the Sabine River mission and included the majority of Louisiana’s national guard on-strength. Other national guardsmen were present though along with some Green Beret teams as well, all in defence to stop these raids from achieving their aim. That aim was to establish a forward presence on the ground inside any sheltered areas of the Louisiana Wetlands to conduct deeper operations later. When located, the forward sites were attacked along with encountered patrols. It was not a pleasant fight for anyone involved. It went on though with no end in sight unless the V Corps was able to move forward into Texas proper in 1985 to take the fight back to the Soviets there instead. Great update James. Nice to General Schwarzkopf and his V Corps take the fight back to the Soviets. Thanks. Oh, he has his eyes on reaching the Rio Grande, and going over it too into Mexico, but only if he is allowed to.
James
Well limited attacks but mainly on hold for the minute. Sounds like the US is planning something early in the new year.
Using such returning casualties, who have recent combat experience, for beefing up existing front line units gives them full strength faster but does mean that the new units being created will be a bit slower and probably weaker without those veterans. Depends on how quickly the US can win as to which is the best option. Plus whether those new units might be needed elsewhere later on, depending on the duration of the war and of US deployments.
Steve
The new year will bring much. We'll be looking at things from the top with the US Gov under pressure to act sooner rather than later in the update after next and things like going forward in the early months of the year will be part of that: that is related to the injured men returning (it must be remembered that many more, badly-injured, will never do so too) at this early point closer to the fight. I can’t imagine pockets of Soviets having a good time fighting on the bayous of Louisiana. What the National Guard doesn’t get, the gators and good ol’ boys will. I doubt that! There is also the Everglades (see below) to consider too: somewhere else not fun for anyone who ends up there. "Hey Bubba, what's commie speak for 'you ain't gonna need them teeth boy'!"? Yeah, some bad things will happen that no one will know about afterwards. Congrats at going over 450k words, James G, and waiting for more... The Soviets will have a bad time of it in the bayous... Thank you. More coming. Not a fun place, nor will southern Florida be either.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Oct 20, 2018 18:57:25 GMT
(267)
December 1984: Florida
‘Florida, a dagger pointed at the heart of Cuba.’
The historical analogy – Korea being seen as that dagger with regard to the ambitions of the Japanese Empire – was rather hyperbolic yet it had been one used by Raúl Castro to urge his brother to strike northwards against Florida ahead of the opening of the war. That didn’t just mean air attacks nor even the landing made at Key West by Cuban paratroopers, but a bigger assault against the mainland. Fidel Castro hadn’t been convinced of that need for Cuba to send its armies into Florida and the Soviets would have none of that either: they wanted Cuban troops in California, Texas and also the Caribbean islands to the east. Plans underway for a big Cuban landing – opposed completely by the Soviets – were called off and instead only the Key West operation (which included the neighbouring Boca Chica Key) took place. However, Raúl was able to get his brother to agree to commando raiding operations to be made. These had begun back in September and were still ongoing throughout December. Along both the eastern and western coasts of the Florida Peninsula, special forces attacks took place. These were coastal operations which rarely ventured far inland and the progress of them far up each coast remained limited. There were no operations past the Tampa Bay – Cape Canaveral line, especially not up along the Florida Panhandle. The Cubans didn’t have his easy. Their commandos were opposed by the Americans who fought on their own ground against this intention to destroy infrastructure throughout the Sunshine State. Soviet naval Spetsnaz joined the fight in the weeks before the end of the year adding to the series of clashes taking place along the shorelines of Florida.
Florida national guardsmen (including some of the state’s own Green Berets) with the 53rd Infantry Brigade and the 83rd Troop Command were stationed up the eastern side of the peninsula as well as internally. The former had their area of operations from Key Largo at the very top of the Florida Keys all the way past Miami and up to Cape Canaveral; the latter was a non-combat command organisation response for inland support yet included many small armed detachments on patrol including former national guardsmen who’d volunteered to return to wartime service. Up along all of the western coastline, from the Everglades to the Florida Panhandle, was the 2nd Marine Division with thousands of US Marines positioned there. Since the beginning of the war, they had been here rather than seeing action elsewhere as the Marine Corps as a whole would have wished to have seen done with them. The US Marines should really have been in the Caribbean. However, they remained in Florida until newly-raised forces of the ARUS (the Army of the United States included two marine divisions, one being raised at Parris Island in South Carolina) could replace them next year. The national guardsmen and the US Marines all saw action. Their clashes with the Cubans, and also smaller numbers of Soviets, were near daily. The majority were accidents where the two opposing sides ran into each other rather than purposeful engagements. There were only so many places where the raiding forces could show up along the coastline to strike and the defenders were positioned nearby on patrol as well as in static guard positions too. Shootouts took place with great frequency. The Americans, especially the US Marines, had on-hand what the Cubans didn’t have to influence the fights which took place in their favour: external fire support. The Cubans arrived by either speedboats or mini-subs but neither of those carried the weaponry of combat aircraft, armed helicopters, coastal patrol boats and additionally artillery that the Americans had at their disposal. Many incoming raiding parties were detected on their approach and if not attacked before they landed, then straight afterwards. The Cubans were running out of men. Very few of those sent in the raiding teams – as small as half a dozen men; as large as up to forty – were coming back. Those who did return were sent back again, joined by lower-grade men on newer missions. As expected, this saw even more losses occur. Initial Soviet hesitancy to go anywhere near the Florida mission changed when they saw how many good-quality American forces were tied up facing the Cubans. They knew too that the US Marines would have been better used in the Caribbean but they were in Florida and with the introduction of a smaller number of their own men, they could tie up greater numbers of opponents. Therefore, part of the 17th Naval Spetsnaz Brigade tasked for Gulf of Mexico operations along the coasts of Texas (in defence) and Louisiana (on the attack) was sent to Florida as well to exploit this opportunity.
Homestead AFB, MacDill AFB and Patrick AFB – a trio of airbases across the southern half of the Peninsula – were where those aircraft in the skies over Florida but also out into the Florida Straits were flying from when the US Air Force supported those on the ground. They were joined by US Marine aircraft who operated from Homestead and several civilian sites now under military control. Each was the focus of attempts to get raiding forces into them with the Cubans making a big attack on Patrick early in the month and the Soviets showing up off MacDill (inside Tampa Bay and not easy to reach from the open sea) a couple of weeks later. Aircraft were lost on the ground in these and there were casualties among American forces especially with the strike on MacDill. The commando threat was something always there yet the main focus for those involved in the air war when it came to Florida was hostile action in the air coming from Cuba. There were more aircraft based up in the Florida Panhandle at both Eglin AFB and Tyndall AFB too. As had been the case just before the war, aircraft coming out of Cuba were engaged before they could reach Florida if possible… otherwise in the skies above. A new threat showed up come December, a different type of Soviet aircraft than had been met before. These were Sukhoi-27S Flankers. US intelligence knew that the Soviet Air Defence Forces had rushed the -27P interceptor version into service to protect the Soviet homeland yet the appearance of the -27S fighter version in Cuba came as a surprise. These aircraft were quite something. They still needed work-up time before they could do all that was foreseen with such an aircraft and the Flanker wasn’t widely available due to production issues. Nonetheless, the Soviets hoped that they would be a game-changer in the skies over the Florida Straits, engaging and overcoming American F-15s. Eagles and Flankers met in combat. The Soviets came off worse from the clashes yet not overly decisively so if an opinion of an impartial judge could have been given on the several fights which occurred. There were no impartial judges about. The F-15s, aided by AWACS support too, shot down several of the Soviet fighters and chased others away while taking a few losses of their own. Over in Cuba, the Soviets only saw failure occur when fewer aircraft returned than had gone out and the kill claims of F-15s which came from the surviving pilots didn’t sound convincing enough. The Flankers were held back from any more offensive missions forward for the time being until more would be sent and different arrangements made for their use in battle.
Those clashes with the Flankers saw a couple of F-15s come down over the bottom of Florida when damaged aircraft based much further to the north tried to make emergency landings at the southern airbases. Pilots ejected if possible, facing the elements rather than end up smeared on the ground as part of an air-wreck. Try as they might to avoid so, there were aircrews who came down in the Everglades. Cuban and Soviet pilots in other fights had ended up here with a couple of them rescued though many more left all alone as those who were saved had been located due to their good fortune and not a deliberate effort to do so. With the US Air Force pilots, HH-3 rescue helicopters, Jolly Green Giants, went looking for them and pulled a few out. Others would join the unfortunate fates of enemy pilots who’d ended up there facing the elements and the wildlife. Elsewhere across Florida, where enemy aircrews came down or commandos part of raiding teams ended up on their own & running for their lives, they faced a different kind of danger than what was in the Everglades. All across the Sunshine State were men in uniform with guns. The Florida State Guard, inactive before the war since being stood down back in 1947, was re-established with the stroke of a pen from Governor Bob Graham within hours of the current war starting. Thousands of men joined up including a significant number of Cuban-Americans too when it became clear that despite pressure exerted, the US Government wasn’t going to build an army solely of Cuban exiles. Those who were unable to join the National Guard or the ARUS then entered service with the State Guard. Uniforms weren’t so uniform and the weaponry available was a wide mix – ‘bring your own’ it often was – but the numbers were rather impressive. Organisation and communications links improved pretty fast. By December, the State Guard was over fifteen thousand strong: bigger than the Florida National Guard and just short of the 2nd Marine Division numbers-wise. They too became involved in shooting incidents with commando raiders coming from the sea though, unfortunately, there were a couple of friendly-fire incidents with their fellow Floridians too when other State Guard troops and national guardsmen as well were shot at. There was a lot of eagerness to fight, sometimes too much.
In the northern part of Florida, there was much military activity away from the frontlines of the conflict with the Soviet’s unsinkable aircraft carrier which was Cuba. On the Atlantic-facing northeastern corner, Mayport naval base near Jacksonville was seeing major use by the US Navy along with the nearby naval air facilities as well. US Navy security forces, expanded greatly since before the war (and not highly-rated by the other armed services) conducted security patrols though without an active commando threat. They were preparing themselves for one, a wise move considering how the Soviets were conducting silent reconnaissance ready to begin actions here come next year. Over in the Florida Panhandle, to the northwest, the US Navy had several air facilities there as well near to the US Air Force bases at Eglin and Tyndall. NAS Pensacola and NAS Whiting Field were pre-war training bases now with expanded operations ongoing. When the Soviet Airborne had landed in South Texas at the beginning of the conflict, they had used the many US Navy training sites around Corpus Christi as airheads: this was joined by the Cubans taking NAS Key West, another major training site for the US Navy’s aviation assets. The aircraft and personnel there in Texas and also the Florida Keys had all been lost in the sudden assaults thus making Pensacola and Whiting Field (plus several outlying relief strips) even more busy than they would have been with full American national mobilisation ongoing. While aircrews conducted their training ready to serve aboard carriers, there was a carrier offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. The USS Lexington, remembered by the Japanese as the ‘Blue Ghost’ for her World War Two service, remained caught inside what was considered hostile territory. The training carrier had a small air wing and had been conducting limited offshore air operations though staying close to the coastline. Several near misses had come and her luck could only last so long. The Soviets were aiming to get her soon enough though sinking the Blue Ghost was, as the Japanese had discovered in the last war she fought in, meant finding her first. Keeping the Lexington in the fight forever was something recognised as impossible by the US Navy when in the Gulf of Mexico. She needed to escape or be lost. If an escape was made, there was a lot that the carrier would do in the wider war rather than playing hide-and-seek in the Gulf of Mexico and waiting for the Soviets to put her on the bottom. An opportunity came to make that escape and the US Navy took it. Towards the end of the month, the US Air Force was planning to make a major strike against Cuba and being rather secretive about it because they were using their ‘invisible’ aircraft to do this: the few F-117 Nighthawks that were in service. Cuban mainland targets were on the list to be bombed as well as the Cuban fighters flying from Key West too. Only by getting to Chuck Robb himself could the US Navy get the US Air Force to agree to coordinate their raid with the escape of the Blue Ghost. The defence secretary would not stand by and allow the interservice rivalry which had crippled the early war effort to continue and this was an opportunity he himself took to stamp on that when it still, after all this time, saw the two service not actively subverting each other’s war efforts but refusing to cooperate fully. When the stealth aircraft went into action over Cuba and dropped bombs on Key West too, the Lexington made a run for it. The carrier raced down the western side of the Florida Peninsula and through the Florida Straits before going around the bottom and up the eastern side. The Soviets had no idea it happened until one of their scouting teams near Mayport spotted the Blue Ghost coming into port there. Even if those men had missed its arrival, there came an announcement the next day from New York boasting of what had happened, even claiming that the Lexington had attacked Cuba on the way. It was a rare admission by the US Navy of what its carriers were up to in this war and part of a big propaganda move, with the added lie about the supposed attacks made on Cuba during the escape. This only added to the intent by the Soviets to strike at Mayport as soon as they could. They dispatched more men to join the scout team, ready to give the Americans a taste of their own propaganda when the Lexington was – like others in port – to be attacked as soon as possible and blown up in port once the men were there. The plan was to do this in January.
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 20, 2018 21:04:48 GMT
"Hey Bubba, what's commie speak for 'you ain't gonna need them teeth boy'!"? "Comrade Ivan, the party needs you to hand over Your teeth to support the motherland."
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Oct 20, 2018 22:05:24 GMT
James
Hopefully the Cuban raid will be a disaster but probably wise not to keep the Lexington at Mayport. An old Essex class CV probably won't be able to handle a lot of modern jet fighter but it can do something and having made something of a morale issue of its escape it would be awkward to have it sunk.
The Cubans have done an effective job of keeping a lot of Us forces and resources in Florida but sounds like its been costly for them, probably also in the small subs and FAC that have been used to deliver the forces.
Successful attacks on targets in Cuba can not only make even more difficult the Soviet task of getting reinforcements and supplies to their forces [including allies] in the US but also make the Castros less willing to commit more troops and equipment to the mainland.
One of the quieter parts of the war but still both bloody and important.
Steve
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Oct 21, 2018 14:44:20 GMT
James
Hopefully the Cuban raid will be a disaster but probably wise not to keep the Lexington at Mayport. An old Essex class CV probably won't be able to handle a lot of modern jet fighter but it can do something and having made something of a morale issue of its escape it would be awkward to have it sunk.
The Cubans have done an effective job of keeping a lot of Us forces and resources in Florida but sounds like its been costly for them, probably also in the small subs and FAC that have been used to deliver the forces.
Successful attacks on targets in Cuba can not only make even more difficult the Soviet task of getting reinforcements and supplies to their forces [including allies] in the US but also make the Castros less willing to commit more troops and equipment to the mainland.
One of the quieter parts of the war but still both bloody and important.
Steve
The carrier won't the ere for long. There is much it can do, even not with a modern air wing. Hitting Mayport is something needing to be done fast to get her! Florida has been a big battle but a disjointed one. Each side has to keep it in mind despite everything else going on. Those F-117s will be having a blast over Cuba and the Castro Brothers, but neither the Soviets will be in any way happy.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Oct 21, 2018 14:45:20 GMT
(268)
December 1984: New York
While he hadn’t been about to admit it, John Glenn was convinced back in September that Ted Kennedy was about to lose the election. He would no longer be vice president as his own political career would be over alongside Kennedy’s. Then everything changed that fateful Monday when the war started like it did. Kennedy was dead in Washington and he narrowly survived nuclear assassination himself while in Kansas City followed by his sudden ascension to the presidency. Last month he won election to the office of the presidency, voted in on the National Union ticket, though, once again saying nothing openly, he didn’t anticipate that he’d stay in office past the end of this elected term. His presidency wouldn’t be about economic nor social matters, focusing on what most Americans would always regard as the most important things. Instead, he’d be a wartime president: during it and hopefully through the post-victory recovery.
As a wartime president, Glenn spent the overwhelming majority of his time involved in the conduct of that war. Almost everything ongoing in the country was related to the conflict being fought on American soil and overseas too. This kept Glenn busy and going abroad for the usual peacetime presidential visits wasn’t something on the cards. Through the end of September, into October and then during November too, Glenn didn’t leave the mainland United States. He was either at Mount Weather, Raven Rock, The Greenbrier and only occasionally in New York. When not on the ground, he was airborne with many sudden flights taken when alerts came in over the Soviet nuclear posture threw evacuation procedures into overdrive. This occurred rather frequency, annoying him yet it wasn’t something that could be ignored: not after September 17th. In December, two foreign visits were planned for Glenn, both of them to take place in secrecy. He went to Ottawa first and met with Prime Minister Mulroney to discuss even further military cooperation between the two nations who were fighting the Soviets together. After the Canada visit, Glenn was due to go across the North Atlantic to Britain and meet there with several European leaders (prime ministers from the UK, Ireland, Portugal and Spain) who were gathering in the English countryside at Chequers for a major summit. Glenn didn’t go though. There was ongoing military activity on and above the ocean, intensifying despite the terrible weather. The flight was always going to be dangerous and a military escort like no other beforehand was planned for Air Force One consisting of US Air Force F-15s flying from Newfoundland, US Navy F-14s operating from the USS America midway across the North Atlantic and RAF fighters flying from Ireland. The America was needed elsewhere and the latest satellite pictures coming from Iceland showed Soviet MiG-31 interceptors there along with what appeared to be air-to-air tankers on the ground. There was the possibility that the Soviets might know of Glenn’s trip, or even if they didn’t, those MiGs might get ‘lucky’. In the age of modern communications, was there really a need for Glenn to go all the way to Britain? Such was the question asked. Both yes and no would be the response to that. The European leaders had their meeting regardless – with an unofficial attendee being the French foreign minister – and then afterwards Prime Minister Thatcher flew Concorde from Gloucestershire’s RAF Fairford to McGuire AFB in New Jersey to meet with Glenn in New York. Concorde flew alone without a fighter escort, unhindered by Soviet activity going both ways.
When up in Ottawa, Glenn had been informed that President Herzog Flores was in New York and stamping his feet while demanding to see him. The last leader of the Monterrey Government had come across from San Francisco in a rage. He was waiting for Glenn’s return and was angered when he was denied knowledge of where Glenn was or when he would come back. Glenn met him in his own time. Mexico’s legitimate president had cooled off and his outbursts were gone yet he wasn’t in a good mood after what he saw as being messed around when it came to Glenn ‘avoiding him’ after ‘humiliating him and Mexico’. This all concerned the recent trip by Vice President Baker to Tijuana where transfer of diplomatic recognition was removed from Herzog Flores to the Baja Council. At the UN here in New York, other countries recognised him and his administration (a shrinking number of followers indeed) as the legal representatives of Mexico but now the United States was recognising those in Tijuana! Glenn listened to all that was said and then told Herzog Flores that that was the way things were: relations between the United States and Mexico were now only to be conducted with Tijuana. He urged his visitor to go to Baja California and offer his services there because he, unfortunately, could do no more for him. Herzog Flores tried his best, reminding Glenn of ‘all the work’ being done to create an army of Mexicans on US soil to fight for the Allied cause by this was hyperbole. Nothing had really occurred apart from the Mexican president dreaming big. POWs who’d served in the army of Revolutionary Mexico were going nowhere and there was already a transfer of Mexican nationals from pre-war refugee camps going to Tijuana where they could be organised as an army there: Herzog Flores’ hard work was all in his head as real action was already being taken. He departed despondent while Glenn moved on to others matters of far more importance.
This hardened attitude of Glenn’s in how Mexico’s various self-declared leaders would be dealt with matched other actions taken place with regards to foreign countries in the Western Hemisphere. The United States acted against the neutral nations of both Ecuador and Venezuela, each a former ally who were now providing oil to support the Soviet-led war in North America. They had been coerced, bullied and threatened into doing so but that didn’t matter to the United States because that fuel they provided was all fuel that the Soviets didn’t have to ship across the North Atlantic and it kept tanks and aircraft in action. Ecuador got rougher treatment than Venezuela. US Navy ships, joined by a few Chilean vessels as well, operated openly in a raid against oil tankers going north from Ecuador towards Nicaragua, Guatemala and Revolutionary Mexico with four of them sunk and another half dozen either turning back or not leaving Ecuador when the hostile warships made their intentions known by sinking the others. None of these were Ecuadorian-flagged ships but no tankers would leave the country afterwards for some time even when the Americans and Chileans were gone. There were mines laid near to Ecuador’s ports, one which sunk a cargo ship. Ecuador had no means to deal with what were soon discovered to be extensive minefields laid by a submarine or two covertly while the attacks on oil tankers were happening overtly. Outside Venezuela, there was another US Navy submarine active and laying more minefields: ‘smart’ mines too, which would target only certain types of ships. Two tankers were struck, both of them supposedly vessels registered in the neutral Costa Rica though in reality Cuban operated. Venezuela’s president complained directly to Glenn. The American president acted innocent, saying that it was ‘unfortunate’ that such events had occurred but he didn’t know what had happened. This stood in direct contrast to his response to Ecuadorian anger where Glenn had warned them of further responses if they kept on aiding America’s allies. With Venezuela though, the attitude taken of ‘it could have been anyone who did this’ was used. Glenn urged his counterpart down in Caracas to reassert its sovereignty and act as a true neutral should when it came to belligerent nations at war, therefore not supplying them with material aid. The American aim was to wait to see what Venezuela would do afterwards, expecting events to play out in the new year. Glenn was hoping Venezuela would extradite itself from the entanglement it was in there… otherwise stronger action would be taken.
Following on from all of this, Glenn met with his War Council (what would in peacetime be the National Security Council) in the middle of the month to discuss in detail the ongoing war at home and the direction that the fight was to take through 1985. He was updated on the military situation at the front, the overall civilian issue on both sides of the frontlines and the progress of the building of the Army of the United States. There wasn’t much good news nor was Glenn best pleased at what he was told on the plans for next year.
The frontlines were holding and the Soviet offensive movement forward had been firmly brought to a stop. American counteroffensive capability remained shot through though as everything had been thrown at stopping the invasion from getting any further than it had done. The stalemate where the bad weather was bad continued mostly where the weather was better too. Some successful action had been taken by US forces – Baja California being the highlight of that – yet these were not war-winning moves. Intelligence information on the enemy’s state of their forces showed that they were just as worn out as United States forces were yet they were expecting the arrival of significant reinforcements. There was information that a major command change had come over in occupied territory and reorganisations were ongoing ready to renew the attack. The ARUS (there were some sniggers when that acronym was pronounced as one world; sounds which Glenn wasn’t so amused by) was taking far longer than possible to build in the design and time-frame envisioned. Production issues with equipment needed to fully-equip the planned force were still ongoing. There was excellent training going on yet at the same time, things were taking longer with certain elements of that there too. A solution was asked for by the president. Chuck Robb had one, a controversial one. The defence secretary wanted to see a staged entry of ARUS forces into combat come next year. Rather than all of the massive force being made available at once, parts of it would enter the fight at a time. Full effort would be thrown at getting the parts showing promise ready sooner instead of waiting for everything to be completed. The vice president and also Glenn’s national security adviser weren’t so sure: the Joint Chiefs were behind Robb’s proposal. This would mean bringing about a third of the huge overall ARUS into play by the middle, maybe the end of February. Waiting for everyone to be ready at once, a widespread of efforts fairly made, would mean there would be no new forces available until the end of March, maybe even April. Such a wait was unacceptable, considering what else Glenn and his War Council discussed, that being the number of casualties among civilians so far in this conflict: those who’d already lost their lives and those who were due to. The numbers of the dead already were increasing every day yet they were anticipated to increase behind the lines into 1985. The effects of hunger, disease and lack of any form of medical care being given to American civilians in occupied territory were really going to come into play. Such things would kill more Americans than any collateral damage during the fighting or even the firing squads of occupiers against suspected partisans. Millions upon millions more deaths were certain to occur. The only way to avoid that was to go and liberate American territory as soon as possible.
What the new defence secretary wanted to do with the ARUS was given permission. Extensive plans would begin for major offensives starting before the end of February with those joining existing forces though before then there would be limited attacks made by those already in the fight. Some of the supply effort which was now being directed towards building ARUS forces projected to not be ready for many months would be turned to standing forces to allow this to happen. Howard Baker’s concerns over the low numbers of new forces being brought into action come the end of February were addressed though and it was decided that with a real push, a third of the ARUS being made ready early would instead be half, even with the additional supply & equipment support for standing forces made. Robb went along with this despite knowing the difficulties yet aware of the victory achieved in getting presidential approval not to wait for the whole force to be ready. He had been seriously concerned that doing so could see the war lost because ongoing events elsewhere – the North Atlantic in particular – caused worry that by then the Soviets might be able to force a victory of their own on American soil.
The director of the new National Intelligence & Security Service organisation was at that New York meeting with the War Council though he left as soon as possible once it was completed to fly down to Warrenton in northern Virginia. This CIA site was the centre of their operations as they were undergoing the process of being subsumed by NISS, a process which was still being opposed by the CIA albeit unsuccessfully. He went there because at Warrenton was a Soviet KGB defector being questioned there. He was a full colonel whom the CIA had in their custody yet he was willing and cooperative when it came to talking. They had given him the codename Workman. Workman told the CIA that the defector that the DIA had, the prize which they had in the form of Peppermint, that supposed general from the GRU, was a false defector. He was a liar. He was sent over to trick the Americans in a long-term strategic move. He said he could prove it too. With Peppermint and Workman, the Americans had on their hands another Golitsyn–Nosenko situation all over again.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 21, 2018 15:00:27 GMT
(268)December 1984: New York Another great update James. So we see President Glenn in action, nice.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 21, 2018 18:29:40 GMT
James
Given the the war started in October getting any new forces by the end of February seems very early, unless those are say veterans with previous experience or reservists or something like that. Otherwise while they might be eager their going to be very raw, which with modern weapons could costly for them. Not to mention having decided to get 1/3 of the force early to try and win before too many civilians die or Soviet reinforcements prompt a return to nuclear weapons - as I can't see the US accepting a conventional one - then deciding to get 1/2 the force in the same time seems to be pushing their luck a lot.
The US action in regards to Ecuador and Venezuela is technically illegal but there's a hell of a lot going on that's worse so I can't see any complains being listed to. Especially of course if the US doesn't lose as then its will still be the 888lb gorilla of the Americas.
Probably a wise move for Glenn not to cross the Atlantic. Not sure if it would be worthwhile trying a television link for a conference as that might be intercepted and possibly used for targeting by the Soviets. Would suspect that the assorted undersea cables, that were still pretty important at the time I suspect have already been cut in most cases. In fact given the number of assassinations that the Soviets were involved in and that there might still be Spatniz groups in hiding I suspect Glenn is having to be a very secret President, only being seen on TV by most Americans.
Steve
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Post by lukedalton on Oct 21, 2018 21:32:29 GMT
The US action in regards to Ecuador and Venezuela is technically illegal but there's a hell of a lot going on that's worse so I can't see any complains being listed to. Especially of course if the US doesn't lose as then its will still be the 888lb gorilla of the Americas.
Sure even in case of victory the USA will remain the big man of the americas, but a big man deeply wounded and in need of severe rebuilding...and that after just 4 months of war. The recent action in South America and Africa, not only have hardly won friends in the larger stage (a thing that will probably have big consequences in the aftermath of the war) but had clearly showed to the various minor nations that if you want mantain freedom you need to be very armed (maybe even with nuclear weapons) and have a lot of friends, so regional organization like Mercosur, Ecowas, etc. etc. will rise under the example of the EEC. Talking of the EEC, while they will understand american action and at the moment have their own problem, they will also prepare in case Glenn decide that even them need to be 'true neutral' or if post-war they want settle some score. Basically Gleen action are a short time patch that will have long term consequences, as unlike OTL WW2/WW1 the USA will not end the war as the untouched powerhouse but this time as the battered winner so her soft and hard power will be much less.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 21, 2018 22:14:04 GMT
The US action in regards to Ecuador and Venezuela is technically illegal but there's a hell of a lot going on that's worse so I can't see any complains being listed to. Especially of course if the US doesn't lose as then its will still be the 888lb gorilla of the Americas.
Sure even in case of victory the USA will remain the big man of the americas, but a big man deeply wounded and in need of severe rebuilding...and that after just 4 months of war. The recent action in South America and Africa, not only have hardly won friends in the larger stage (a thing that will probably have big consequences in the aftermath of the war) but had clearly showed to the various minor nations that if you want mantain freedom you need to be very armed (maybe even with nuclear weapons) and have a lot of friends, so regional organization like Mercosur, Ecowas, etc. etc. will rise under the example of the EEC. Talking of the EEC, while they will understand american action and at the moment have their own problem, they will also prepare in case Glenn decide that even them need to be 'true neutral' or if post-war they want settle some score. Basically Gleen action are a short time patch that will have long term consequences, as unlike OTL WW2/WW1 the USA will not end the war as the untouched powerhouse but this time as the battered winner so her soft and hard power will be much less.
That is the big difference assuming a US victory. The US will be a bit more like the UK after one of the world wars, still powerful and victorious but hurt and less dominant than it was. Although if the Soviet empire was to go into serious melt-down and given a divided Europe and China being the disaster area its likely to be for some time to come relative US power could be significantly greater than before the war and possibly not far off it was in 1945. However it will need some time to lick its wounds and at worse could retreat into isolationism again.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 22, 2018 4:53:08 GMT
I like the way that the two defectors is playing out.
So, what are the odds that: 1) Both defectors are genuine, but from different factions? 2) Both defectors are fake. 3) Peppermint is genuine, Workman is fake to discredit Peppermint. 4) Peppermint is fake and Workman is genuine.
There are ways to work it out however it's a game of "I always tell the truth/he always lies".
On the bright side, if the creation of NCSS gets the bugs worked out then sorting this mystery will be NCSS' first intelligence victory.
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Post by lukedalton on Oct 22, 2018 6:55:54 GMT
That is the big difference assuming a US victory. The US will be a bit more like the UK after one of the world wars, still powerful and victorious but hurt and less dominant than it was. Although if the Soviet empire was to go into serious melt-down and given a divided Europe and China being the disaster area its likely to be for some time to come relative US power could be significantly greater than before the war and possibly not far off it was in 1945. However it will need some time to lick its wounds and at worse could retreat into isolationism again.
Difficult as 'divided Europe' will consist in three type of nation, the EEC (till now the only big economy and industrial area not touched by war), nations that will have no other choice to lean on her for humanitarian help and economic recovery and this include the UK (whatever their feeling about NATO break up are) and nations that will sell their firstborn to become part of her...especially if there is a serious meltdown of the Soviet bloc, so no and big part of Africa and the Middle East will look at Bruxelles (Paris) as the power of reference. India is still untouched and once the gun will be silent will start to carve his sphere of influence on former china, south east asia and the indian subcontinent naturally. The arab world will be a mess if the Soviet start to off type like Gheddafi and Saddam, especially if some non entity take their place and suddenly the soviet support evaporate; probably some serious civil war in many nations, still i doubt that the USA will have the power projection capacity and the will to do something about it. In South America, the usual historical grievance against the USA has been exacerbated by the war time behaviour, so any soft power Washington had by now is gone and the road is open for many Chavez like figure and the US military capacity will be severely diminished for sometime due to the reconstruction necessity, so even hard power will be limited and we will see a new arms race in the continent as a mean to be protected by the big guy of the north So no, 1945/50 will be the heyday of the US world power and will not be gained again for sometime
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 22, 2018 8:35:16 GMT
That is the big difference assuming a US victory. The US will be a bit more like the UK after one of the world wars, still powerful and victorious but hurt and less dominant than it was. Although if the Soviet empire was to go into serious melt-down and given a divided Europe and China being the disaster area its likely to be for some time to come relative US power could be significantly greater than before the war and possibly not far off it was in 1945. However it will need some time to lick its wounds and at worse could retreat into isolationism again.
Difficult as 'divided Europe' will consist in three type of nation, the EEC (till now the only big economy and industrial area not touched by war), nations that will have no other choice to lean on her for humanitarian help and economic recovery and this include the UK (whatever their feeling about NATO break up are) and nations that will sell their firstborn to become part of her...especially if there is a serious meltdown of the Soviet bloc, so no and big part of Africa and the Middle East will look at Bruxelles (Paris) as the power of reference. India is still untouched and once the gun will be silent will start to carve his sphere of influence on former china, south east asia and the indian subcontinent naturally. The arab world will be a mess if the Soviet start to off type like Gheddafi and Saddam, especially if some non entity take their place and suddenly the soviet support evaporate; probably some serious civil war in many nations, still i doubt that the USA will have the power projection capacity and the will to do something about it. In South America, the usual historical grievance against the USA has been exacerbated by the war time behaviour, so any soft power Washington had by now is gone and the road is open for many Chavez like figure and the US military capacity will be severely diminished for sometime due to the reconstruction necessity, so even hard power will be limited and we will see a new arms race in the continent as a mean to be protected by the big guy of the north So no, 1945/50 will be the heyday of the US world power and will not be gained again for sometime
Possibly but don't forget there will be a lot of anger at the rump EEC - if we call it that. A hell of a lot of lives have been lost in the US, UK, Spain and other places because other nations ducked out on their treaty commitments. Also I very much doubt Britain is paying its, very large at the time, subsidy to the EEC and if they try and ask for it again, let alone back-payments I think even Thatcher will probably tell them to get stuffed. Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Norway are going to be less than impressed.
Also with eastern Europe if it was to get free what's going to be most important. Military security which a rump NATO can offer but the EEC manifestly can't or going from one top down economic block to another? True the EEC isn't as autocratic and contemptuous of its population as the EU now is but it would need to treat the new European states as friends rather than business opportunities, which it has a poor reputation for.
This of course assumes that the Soviets don't go double or quit yet again and end up invading the continent. In which case the EEC may be in at least a bad case as the US.
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Post by lukedalton on Oct 22, 2018 9:12:31 GMT
Difficult as 'divided Europe' will consist in three type of nation, the EEC (till now the only big economy and industrial area not touched by war), nations that will have no other choice to lean on her for humanitarian help and economic recovery and this include the UK (whatever their feeling about NATO break up are) and nations that will sell their firstborn to become part of her...especially if there is a serious meltdown of the Soviet bloc, so no and big part of Africa and the Middle East will look at Bruxelles (Paris) as the power of reference. India is still untouched and once the gun will be silent will start to carve his sphere of influence on former china, south east asia and the indian subcontinent naturally. The arab world will be a mess if the Soviet start to off type like Gheddafi and Saddam, especially if some non entity take their place and suddenly the soviet support evaporate; probably some serious civil war in many nations, still i doubt that the USA will have the power projection capacity and the will to do something about it. In South America, the usual historical grievance against the USA has been exacerbated by the war time behaviour, so any soft power Washington had by now is gone and the road is open for many Chavez like figure and the US military capacity will be severely diminished for sometime due to the reconstruction necessity, so even hard power will be limited and we will see a new arms race in the continent as a mean to be protected by the big guy of the north So no, 1945/50 will be the heyday of the US world power and will not be gained again for sometime
Possibly but don't forget there will be a lot of anger at the rump EEC - if we call it that. A hell of a lot of lives have been lost in the US, UK, Spain and other places because other nations ducked out on their treaty commitments. Also I very much doubt Britain is paying its, very large at the time, subsidy to the EEC and if they try and ask for it again, let alone back-payments I think even Thatcher will probably tell them to get stuffed. Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Norway are going to be less than impressed.
Also with eastern Europe if it was to get free what's going to be most important. Military security which a rump NATO can offer but the EEC manifestly can't or going from one top down economic block to another? True the EEC isn't as autocratic and contemptuous of its population as the EU now is but it would need to treat the new European states as friends rather than business opportunities, which it has a poor reputation for.
This of course assumes that the Soviets don't go double or quit yet again and end up invading the continent. In which case the EEC may be in at least a bad case as the US.
Yes i know that you don't like the EU due to reason and you seem to desire being relegated to the dustbin of history, but let's be realistic: The Uk: the war has been costly and had pretty much devastated her economy, the EEC is the biggest economic patner and at the moment also the only one that will loan the funds necessary for the economic recovery; the fact that she can give her part of the money to the common budget is a given...frankly is much much much more probable that the Tatcher will go hat in hand to Bruxelles for ask fund to rebuild Great Britain and she will probably found also the US president and the Canadian Prime Minister in the waiting room. Ireland: the EEC is not a military alliance (for now) and so the rest of the group don't have any commitment towards Ireland, so there no foul in her not being military supported by them and no...people in Ireland don't want to go back to the good old time they were an economic colony of the UK (whatever bond the common war experience had created). Spain: Neither in NATO or EEC (as Greece), economy already geared towards european integration and in need of postwar assistance that at the moment only the EEC can provide Portugal and Norway: In NATO, probably some grumbling about commitment and some more esitation to join, same situation of Spain. Not considering that at the moment the EEC is more or less the only thing that is keeping the what remain of the world commerce going and providing humanitarian, intelligence, logistic and financial help to all that nations plus the USA and Canada, and this smooth a lot of things...not considering the various British, Irish, Iberic and even american and canadian refugee that are at the moment guest of the EEC nations. Rump NATO can't offer that much security, postwar they will be forced to demilitarize quickly to keep their economy and their military in general will be a shadow of before the war, expecially in term of power projection (RN and RAF had taken a severe beating and are struggling to defend the home island) and the rest of Est European nation will gravitate in any case around the EEC economies due to the situation and the sheer size of the EEC economy
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Post by eurowatch on Oct 22, 2018 10:57:40 GMT
Possibly but don't forget there will be a lot of anger at the rump EEC - if we call it that. A hell of a lot of lives have been lost in the US, UK, Spain and other places because other nations ducked out on their treaty commitments. Also I very much doubt Britain is paying its, very large at the time, subsidy to the EEC and if they try and ask for it again, let alone back-payments I think even Thatcher will probably tell them to get stuffed. Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Norway are going to be less than impressed.
Also with eastern Europe if it was to get free what's going to be most important. Military security which a rump NATO can offer but the EEC manifestly can't or going from one top down economic block to another? True the EEC isn't as autocratic and contemptuous of its population as the EU now is but it would need to treat the new European states as friends rather than business opportunities, which it has a poor reputation for.
This of course assumes that the Soviets don't go double or quit yet again and end up invading the continent. In which case the EEC may be in at least a bad case as the US.
Yes i know that you don't like the EU due to reason and you seem to desire being relegated to the dustbin of history, but let's be realistic: The Uk: the war has been costly and had pretty much devastated her economy, the EEC is the biggest economic patner and at the moment also the only one that will loan the funds necessary for the economic recovery; the fact that she can give her part of the money to the common budget is a given...frankly is much much much more probable that the Tatcher will go hat in hand to Bruxelles for ask fund to rebuild Great Britain and she will probably found also the US president and the Canadian Prime Minister in the waiting room. Ireland: the EEC is not a military alliance (for now) and so the rest of the group don't have any commitment towards Ireland, so there no foul in her not being military supported by them and no...people in Ireland don't want to go back to the good old time they were an economic colony of the UK (whatever bond the common war experience had created). Spain: Neither in NATO or EEC (as Greece), economy already geared towards european integration and in need of postwar assistance that at the moment only the EEC can provide Portugal and Norway: In NATO, probably some grumbling about commitment and some more esitation to join, same situation of Spain. Not considering that at the moment the EEC is more or less the only thing that is keeping the what remain of the world commerce going and providing humanitarian, intelligence, logistic and financial help to all that nations plus the USA and Canada, and this smooth a lot of things...not considering the various British, Irish, Iberic and even american and canadian refugee that are at the moment guest of the EEC nations. Rump NATO can't offer that much security, postwar they will be forced to demilitarize quickly to keep their economy and their military in general will be a shadow of before the war, expecially in term of power projection (RN and RAF had taken a severe beating and are struggling to defend the home island) and the rest of Est European nation will gravitate in any case around the EEC economies due to the situation and the sheer size of the EEC economy I think that while there won't be a lot of anger towards the EEC and more willingness to borrow money, none of the countries are going to join in the close future. The simple reason for that is that their economies are bust and if they join the rest of the EEC Will have to support them instead for years.
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