|
|
Post by marshalsoult on Jan 17, 2018 14:20:38 GMT
Exactly, he'd be more like Moore. Wich Moore, also could somebody take his place, i doubt if he lost the Battle of Waterloo he can keep his job. John Moore, who died at Corunna I believe, basically Wellington would me famous for those events, less of a myth. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035 
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 14:25:12 GMT
Wich Moore, also could somebody take his place, i doubt if he lost the Battle of Waterloo he can keep his job. John Moore, who died at Corunna I believe, basically Wellington would me famous for those events, less of a myth. Would that not also be because he Battle of Corunna was fought between him and your namesake. |
|
|
|
Post by marshalsoult on Jan 17, 2018 14:27:21 GMT
John Moore, who died at Corunna I believe, basically Wellington would me famous for those events, less of a myth. Would that not also be because he Battle of Corunna was fought between him and your namesake. Pretty much yeah, every war "hero" is famous for something, death, amazing battle, defeat. Moore is like Nelson except for the fact that Trafalgar is a bigger deal. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 14:30:15 GMT
Would that not also be because he Battle of Corunna was fought between him and your namesake. Pretty much yeah, every war "hero" is famous for something, death, amazing battle, defeat. Moore is like Nelson except for the fact that Trafalgar is a bigger deal. Also Moore was out shinned by a certain duke, so few people know about him. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,857
Likes: 13,243
|
Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2018 15:45:22 GMT
Also i can assume a certain Duke will not become as famous as OTL. If you mean Wellington, yeah. I still say He's overrated, Waterloo was won by Blucher. I would says it was a combined victory. Wellington held the line and worn down much of the French army, including famously the Imperial Guard units there but the Prussians [along with some mis-management by the French] drew off sizeable forces and arrived need the end to ensure the French were defeated and take up the persuit - as they were the fresher units. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 15:49:34 GMT
If you mean Wellington, yeah. I still say He's overrated, Waterloo was won by Blucher. I would says it was a combined victory. Wellington held the line and worn down much of the French army, including famously the Imperial Guard units there but the Prussians [along with some mis-management by the French] drew off sizeable forces and arrived need the end to ensure the French were defeated and take up the persuit - as they were the fresher units. A certain Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Sharpe had not to do anything with that victory would it. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,857
Likes: 13,243
|
Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2018 15:50:38 GMT
Wich Moore, also could somebody take his place, i doubt if he lost the Battle of Waterloo he can keep his job. John Moore, who died at Corunna I believe, basically Wellington would me famous for those events, less of a myth. Not quite clear to me here. Are you saying that if somehow Wellington rather than Moore had been at Corunna you think Soult would have won? Or something different. Sir John Moore did die at Corunna, a serious loss to Britain. [And something of an hero to me as you might have gathered.  ] Have an old TL where he doesn't and with both Moore and Wellington in the peninsula they do somewhat better but the big butterflies start fluttering their wings when 1812 comes around. Having two highly compenent generals available means one can go west. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,857
Likes: 13,243
|
Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2018 15:52:53 GMT
I would says it was a combined victory. Wellington held the line and worn down much of the French army, including famously the Imperial Guard units there but the Prussians [along with some mis-management by the French] drew off sizeable forces and arrived need the end to ensure the French were defeated and take up the persuit - as they were the fresher units. A certain Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Sharpe had not to do anything with that victory would it. Only in fiction unfortunately. Although by accounts the Duke of Orange was a right idiot who lost the allies at least one regiment. [IIRC one of the King's German Legion units, very good veterans. And just a short time before they would finally have ended their exile and be able to return home.  ] |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 15:56:06 GMT
A certain Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Sharpe had not to do anything with that victory would it. Only in fiction unfortunately. Although by accounts the Duke of Orange was a right idiot who lost the allies at least one regiment. [IIRC one of the King's German Legion units, very good veterans. And just a short time before they would finally have ended their exile and be able to return home. ] Being Dutch i apologize if he was truly that idiot as depicted in Sharpe Waterloo, but do not know how he was during the real Battle. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,857
Likes: 13,243
|
Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2018 16:08:12 GMT
Only in fiction unfortunately. Although by accounts the Duke of Orange was a right idiot who lost the allies at least one regiment. [IIRC one of the King's German Legion units, very good veterans. And just a short time before they would finally have ended their exile and be able to return home. ] Being Dutch i apologize if he was truly that idiot as depicted in Sharpe Waterloo, but do not know how he was during the real Battle. Your not responsible for the behaviour of a countryman 200+ years back. As I understand it at one point he ordered a unit to advance and made reference to 'that unit of cavalry would cover their attack'. It was pointed out to him that the cavalry unit was actually French and would take them in the flank, which is what happened and apparently he decided it would be too much of a blow to his honour to admit he had made a mistake and change the order, or something like that. Actually just checked Wiki to remind myself and that casts doubt on the story. See Prince William of Orange, or more specifically the last paragraph. I also demoted him to a Duke when he was actually the Prince.  . |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 16:18:04 GMT
Being Dutch i apologize if he was truly that idiot as depicted in Sharpe Waterloo, but do not know how he was during the real Battle. Your not responsible for the behaviour of a countryman 200+ years back. As I understand it at one point he ordered a unit to advance and made reference to 'that unit of cavalry would cover their attack'. It was pointed out to him that the cavalry unit was actually French and would take them in the flank, which is what happened and apparently he decided it would be too much of a blow to his honour to admit he had made a mistake and change the order, or something like that. Actually just checked Wiki to remind myself and that casts doubt on the story. See Prince William of Orange, or more specifically the last paragraph. I also demoted him to a Duke when he was actually the Prince. . Is that the same as in the movie, do not know if you have seen it where he orders one of his battalions to form a line despite Sharp telling the idiot that the French cavalry are there and that the battalions is better of in forming a square, of course when the French cavalry does come the idiot blames it on his officers. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,857
Likes: 13,243
|
Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2018 17:39:46 GMT
Your not responsible for the behaviour of a countryman 200+ years back. As I understand it at one point he ordered a unit to advance and made reference to 'that unit of cavalry would cover their attack'. It was pointed out to him that the cavalry unit was actually French and would take them in the flank, which is what happened and apparently he decided it would be too much of a blow to his honour to admit he had made a mistake and change the order, or something like that. Actually just checked Wiki to remind myself and that casts doubt on the story. See Prince William of Orange, or more specifically the last paragraph. I also demoted him to a Duke when he was actually the Prince. . Is that the same as in the movie, do not know if you have seen it where he orders one of his battalions to form a line despite Sharp telling the idiot that the French cavalry are there and that the battalions is better of in forming a square, of course when the French cavalry does come the idiot blames it on his officers. Probably the same basic story. Does sound like it was a fiction however. I think, from reading the book a long time ago, that it ends up with Sharpe 'accidentally' shooting and wounding him to prevent him doing something like it again when the allies are desperately running low on units still able to fight. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,035
Likes: 49,439
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2018 17:44:04 GMT
Is that the same as in the movie, do not know if you have seen it where he orders one of his battalions to form a line despite Sharp telling the idiot that the French cavalry are there and that the battalions is better of in forming a square, of course when the French cavalry does come the idiot blames it on his officers. Probably the same basic story. Does sound like it was a fiction however. I think, from reading the book a long time ago, that it ends up with Sharpe 'accidentally' shooting and wounding him to prevent him doing something like it again when the allies are desperately running low on units still able to fight. Yep it is after Sharpe finds two of his friends dead who defended the farm house where the idiot also was before he fled. |
|
|
|
Post by marshalsoult on Jan 19, 2018 11:11:51 GMT
Pretty much yeah, every war "hero" is famous for something, death, amazing battle, defeat. Moore is like Nelson except for the fact that Trafalgar is a bigger deal. Also Moore was out shinned by a certain duke, so few people know about him. Which One, York? |
|
|
|
Post by marshalsoult on Jan 19, 2018 11:13:48 GMT
If you mean Wellington, yeah. I still say He's overrated, Waterloo was won by Blucher. I would says it was a combined victory. Wellington held the line and worn down much of the French army, including famously the Imperial Guard units there but the Prussians [along with some mis-management by the French] drew off sizeable forces and arrived need the end to ensure the French were defeated and take up the persuit - as they were the fresher units. You can look at it like that, also you could see British failure. They lost La Haye Sainte, over 10,000 men, some of their generals, so overall it would've been a Pyrrhic Victory if not for ending the war. |
|
] Have an old TL where he doesn't and with both Moore and Wellington in the peninsula they do somewhat better but the big butterflies start fluttering their wings when 1812 comes around. Having two highly compenent generals available means one can go west. 
]
.