stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 30, 2017 15:17:52 GMT
Would the African, Asian, and Caribbean colonies eventually get a vote? I do not think so, they are colonies of the United Kingdom and thus they are represented by the United Kingdom in the Union Assembly which is located in the Union capitol of Ottawa. Well that could be interesting if Britain managed to maintain some of those territories and at some stage gave full voting rights as citizens to some of those areas? Or S Africa eventually becomes a full democracy. At that point you probably still have a English speaking state as its probably going to be the official language but its going to bring a hell of a lot of non-Anglo-Saxons into the electorate. At this point, if its managed to last this long the union is going to have to decide what response it has. In terms of if it assumes Britain keeps the empire, does the US [since the rest of the union other than Eire is already committed] give direct support in defending it against fascist attack? [Similarly with Britain, Australia etc supporting the US in defending its possessions in E Asia and the Pacific?] |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 15:31:31 GMT
I do not think so, they are colonies of the United Kingdom and thus they are represented by the United Kingdom in the Union Assembly which is located in the Union capitol of Ottawa. In terms of if it assumes Britain keeps the empire, does the US [since the rest of the union other than Eire is already committed] give direct support in defending it against fascist attack? [Similarly with Britain, Australia etc supporting the US in defending its possessions in E Asia and the Pacific?] I think the Union Congress ore Assembly what ever it is named will most likely have a joint treaty on defense, the Article has this about what you are saying: But the English-speaking world is big enough for all conceivable purpose. Its a world bounded on the northeast by the British Isles, on the southeast by the Union of South Africa, on the northwest by Alaska, on the southwest by Australia and Ne Zeeland. Its center is in the U.S. and that would be the center of its foreign and military policy. It would have no involvement whatever in the continent of Europe. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jun 30, 2017 15:38:19 GMT
Would the African, Asian, and Caribbean colonies eventually get a vote? I do not think so, they are colonies of the United Kingdom and thus they are represented by the United Kingdom in the Union Assembly which is located in the Union capitol of Ottawa. But the representation is not adjusted as such. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 15:52:17 GMT
I do not think so, they are colonies of the United Kingdom and thus they are represented by the United Kingdom in the Union Assembly which is located in the Union capitol of Ottawa. But the representation is not adjusted as such. The article says: The Union would embrace 1/6 of the Earth surface, 1/10 of the population, half of the naval power. U.S.could outvote all others. Representation is based on one delegate for each member state plus one more for each 5,00,000 population, as the population of the United States was in 1940 some 132,164,569, that would mean they get 1 delegate + 26 votes compared to the United Kingdom population which was 47,500,000 and which would mean they get 1 + 9. If the British Empire in total (including all other subdivisions which make up the empire minus Australia, Canada, New Zeeland, Ireland and South Africa) than they would have a population of some 506,000,000 than they would have 1 + 101 delegates in the Union Congress. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jun 30, 2017 16:50:27 GMT
But the representation is not adjusted as such. The article says: The Union would embrace 1/6 of the Earth surface, 1/10 of the population, half of the naval power. U.S.could outvote all others. Representation is based on one delegate for each member state plus one more for each 5,00,000 population, as the population of the United States was in 1940 some 132,164,569, that would mean they get 1 delegate + 26 votes compared to the United Kingdom population which was 47,500,000 and which would mean they get 1 + 9. If the British Empire in total (including all other subdivisions which make up the empire minus Australia, Canada, New Zeeland, Ireland and South Africa) than they would have a population of some 506,000,000 than they would have 1 + 101 delegates in the Union Congress. Hence my concern. I wonder if they would eventually have done it. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 16:55:07 GMT
The article says: The Union would embrace 1/6 of the Earth surface, 1/10 of the population, half of the naval power. U.S.could outvote all others. Representation is based on one delegate for each member state plus one more for each 5,00,000 population, as the population of the United States was in 1940 some 132,164,569, that would mean they get 1 delegate + 26 votes compared to the United Kingdom population which was 47,500,000 and which would mean they get 1 + 9. If the British Empire in total (including all other subdivisions which make up the empire minus Australia, Canada, New Zeeland, Ireland and South Africa) than they would have a population of some 506,000,000 than they would have 1 + 101 delegates in the Union Congress. Hence my concern. I wonder if they would eventually have done it. Done what. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jun 30, 2017 16:56:37 GMT
Hence my concern. I wonder if they would eventually have done it. Done what. Integrate the rest of the empire with proper representation. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 17:02:19 GMT
Integrate the rest of the empire with proper representation. The United States would not bee that stupid, it would lose its voting power in the Union congress, it could claim that as the British Empire is not truly a English speaking entry than only part of it (United Kingdom) is allowed a delegate. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 30, 2017 17:46:52 GMT
Integrate the rest of the empire with proper representation. The United States would not bee that stupid, it would lose its voting power in the Union congress, it could claim that as the British Empire is not truly a English speaking entry than only part of it (United Kingdom) is allowed a delegate. I think this is the key flaw. The basic idea is that the US effectively gained control of the British empire. Something that challenged US domination of the union would be deeply opposed. I can't see Britain seeking to integrate all the empire but I could see some areas so treated, if for no other reason than to give a basis for challenging US domination. Although there would also some other interests, like keeping influence in assorted areas with useful resources. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 17:50:01 GMT
The United States would not bee that stupid, it would lose its voting power in the Union congress, it could claim that as the British Empire is not truly a English speaking entry than only part of it (United Kingdom) is allowed a delegate. I think this is the key flaw. The basic idea is that the US effectively gained control of the British empire. Something that challenged US domination of the union would be deeply opposed. You correct even with only 20 delegates the combine vote of the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, New Zeeland, South Africa and Australia come 7 delegates short of being able to challenge the 27 delegates of the United States. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jun 30, 2017 18:41:26 GMT
I think this is the key flaw. The basic idea is that the US effectively gained control of the British empire. Something that challenged US domination of the union would be deeply opposed. You correct even with only 20 delegates the combine vote of the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, New Zeeland, South Africa and Australia come 7 delegates short of being able to challenge the 27 delegates of the United States. India and Nigeria would change that. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 30, 2017 19:36:39 GMT
You correct even with only 20 delegates the combine vote of the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, New Zeeland, South Africa and Australia come 7 delegates short of being able to challenge the 27 delegates of the United States. India and Nigeria would change that. But India and Nigeria where not independent countries in 1940 nor are those two English speaking only places, thus i think they might not be allowed to become mebers of the Union. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 30, 2017 22:44:20 GMT
India and Nigeria would change that. But India and Nigeria where not independent countries in 1940 nor are those two English speaking only places, thus i think they might not be allowed to become mebers of the Union. The trick might be to select places such as the British Caribbean, which is overwhelmingly black but also overwhelmingly English speaking and possibly areas such as Rhodesia and East Africa as dominions. If nothing else each could claim one vote as a additional member of the union as well as anything from their population total. [Although in reality the system would have fallen apart if the union isn't prepared to fight together when elements are attacked.] Mind you the US does have more capacity for natural population growth than most of the rest of the union which could play a role in countering additional colonies becoming dominions. The other issue is could the Philippines become a full member? Its not English speaking but it might be politically difficult for the US to deny its primary colony an equal role, while some in the US might think that the Philippines would generally support the US stance in the union. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 1, 2017 2:12:57 GMT
But India and Nigeria where not independent countries in 1940 nor are those two English speaking only places, thus i think they might not be allowed to become mebers of the Union. The trick might be to select places such as the British Caribbean, which is overwhelmingly black but also overwhelmingly English speaking and possibly areas such as Rhodesia and East Africa as dominions. If nothing else each could claim one vote as a additional member of the union as well as anything from their population total. [Although in reality the system would have fallen apart if the union isn't prepared to fight together when elements are attacked.] Mind you the US does have more capacity for natural population growth than most of the rest of the union which could play a role in countering additional colonies becoming dominions. The other issue is could the Philippines become a full member? Its not English speaking but it might be politically difficult for the US to deny its primary colony an equal role, while some in the US might think that the Philippines would generally support the US stance in the union. Didn't think of the Philippines but you bring up a good point. I would reckon if the union liberalizes at all they will be brought in. Quebec poses another interesting question due to its differing majority language. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 1, 2017 7:26:47 GMT
The trick might be to select places such as the British Caribbean, which is overwhelmingly black but also overwhelmingly English speaking and possibly areas such as Rhodesia and East Africa as dominions. If nothing else each could claim one vote as a additional member of the union as well as anything from their population total. [Although in reality the system would have fallen apart if the union isn't prepared to fight together when elements are attacked.] Mind you the US does have more capacity for natural population growth than most of the rest of the union which could play a role in countering additional colonies becoming dominions. The other issue is could the Philippines become a full member? Its not English speaking but it might be politically difficult for the US to deny its primary colony an equal role, while some in the US might think that the Philippines would generally support the US stance in the union. Didn't think of the Philippines but you bring up a good point. I would reckon if the union liberalizes at all they will be brought in. Quebec poses another interesting question due to its differing majority language. But if the Philippines becomes a member of the Union, than it would not be the Union of the English-Speaking Peoples but something general like the League of Nations. |
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