I groaned when I read the first post. Not on account of the prose, which was unclear, but because it is actually completely and utterly at odds with the facts.
In a word, wrong.
Perhaps it is because of my recent paper on the Establishment Clause, but I'll expand to show why this is up a gum tree:
Sentence 1: "So since America was more like a confederacy in it's infancy I think all the states could have their own state churches."
There was nothing that stopped them from doing so, but not all states did have an established church, such as the dissenting havens. Several states had disestablished during the American Revolutionary War and prior to the formulation of the United States Constitution in 1789, including Virginia.
Sentence 2: "I would only say having christianity as the country's official religion but no state churches specifically is also tenable."
The USA not having an official religion was not a bug, but a feature. There not being any official church on a national level is dealt with in the Establishment Clause.
Sentence 3: "But each state having it's own state church is possible until the north states united against the CSA as before then Americans thought of themselves as new Yorkers, Californians etc. and just saw NY & Cali or whatever as a part of ''these united states'' rather than seeing themselves as Americans, after this the states had far less freedom from the central authority."
This is trying to support its own idea with a lot of fluff when it is actually irrelevant. The last state to disestablish was Massachusetts in 1833, long before the Civil War.
Never had an established church: Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Delaware
1776: North Carolina
1777: New York
1786: Virginia
1790: South Carolina
1798: Georgia
1810: Maryland
1818: Connecticut
1819: New Hampshire
1833: Massachusetts
Next, we have the issue of having state churches being possible until the Civil War having some magical centralising effect. Not quite. The Fourteenth Amendment began the process of incorporation of the Bill of Rights upon the states, but there was no significant or important Establishment Clause jurisprudence until 1947.
These are the facts. The initial premise and waffling on about states having official churches are not factual, nor even close to it.
1. You have correctly omitted Massachusetts as a colony which began as
a sort of theocracy. It took them a while to disestablish, and
we still have problems with
this 1st Amendment, which I believe is well known.
2. I do not think of revolutionary America as a "confederacy". I think of it properly in the international legal sense of the day as an 'alliance system" of "quasi-state entities" that formed a charter council and a common army during the revolution to fight a common enemy. The articles of confederation, the council drew up, in treaty form, after the war, were an attempt to formalize that alliance into a structure like the EU, today, until the articles failed them in settling border and trade disputes, as these quasi-nations squabbled among themselves.
3. It was a constitutional convention that formed a "national" government and a "national" state to erase tariff walls and stabilize interstate legal disputes. In that process, there was the legal requirement to make the national law the supreme law of the land which the states would recognize. That meant a surrender of state sovereignty. I wrote about this before in a thread where I discussed why the southern leadership were not only treasonous but incompetent totalitarians who worked against each other in their slavocracy and the nation they sought to destroy, which was us. That process of compromise took a lot of haggling among the competing interpretations of what each representative of each state thought the national law should be. One must also remember that no-one in authority had given de-jure what these people in Philadelphia were cooking up, the right to do it. A bunch of prominent men, representing each state's elites, (no women), wrote down that national law, as a compromise among those elites ad hoc. They put together an instrument that resembled a corporate business charter, more than what was understood, even at the time, as a political instrument. This was their experience of how colonial governments had been started and formed within the colonies,
as written contracts. Hence the term, "social contract".
4. You, today, may disagree with the results on slavery, the citizenship definition, process rights, their definition of due process, and the exclusion of economic justice, as they cobbled it together, but they were only cognizant of what had been the political experience they knew. Part of that experience had been the wars of religion in Europe, not just in England. Take a look at the package they created and what they explicitly excluded besides "state religion".
-a titled nobility.
-a large standing army quartered upon the civil populace.
-star chamber (secret legal) proceedings.
-legislated law to punish an offense specific to the individual.
(Each principle which is still a current legal problem. M.)
5. Religion was lumped in with these disestablishments. The reason was "civil war".
6. That would be the "defacto" state religion for the "nation". But whose "Christianity" would it be? I cited the Thirty Years War as a historic example. Those "founders" in Philadelphia did not do anything about abolishing slavery because they did not think individual human ownership of humans was inherently wrong as a common law legal precept and did not realize that by not stopping slavery in its tracks legally that they were headed inevitably straight for civil war and that decision on the battlefield, but they sure knew what religion had done to Europe. They removed "state religion" at the national level to allow each state to decide for itself what a religion would be. But, even here, inside each state, except among the crazies, imposed state religion was soon seen as a bad idea. So: each state followed the national example.
7. You understand that "Abolitionism" in America as an
ideology, began
within religious reform movements? It was a northern reaction to the perceived southern political hold on the national governance. The slavocrats, a vested interest economic class, who considered themselves a pseudo-aristocracy, were also quick to invoke religion to defend slavery as their natural right and way of life, as well as justify their special place of privilege within the 'political and social order'. Never mind their State's Rights. Their "god" had made slavery the natural social and economic order to be maintained.
They claimed the bible declared it so.Or to put it another way...
Listen at 38.00 forward as to what Fitzhugh wrote and decide for yourself what religion added to the tinder of the slavery question engendered. I reiterate... 700,000 dead Americans and at least twice that many maimed for life and rendered unfit for the full health and enjoyment of their lives and the pursuit of their happiness.
We do not teach this anymore in our schools. I have to ask why?
This is backwards history as to fact. The Southern United States elites united as a regional political block early and acted monomaniacally as a political block, because by 1800, the slavocrats knew where national economics and their demographics was headed. They were not stupid. The doctrines of "nullification" and "state's rights" (singular not plural possessive) were faked up out of their misinterpretation of the actual constitution to justify their flouting of the federal law and authority and their treasons against that constitution before South Carolina's second attempt at succession. South Carolina's first attempt certainly was treason based on this premise. It was their reaction to the belated North's and West's realization of their own common political and economic interests in a "free person economy" based on capitalism and not Southern mercantilism and slave labor. It can be argued, as in the case of the Jefferson Davis engineered and abetted Mormon War, that "religion" could have substituted as an ideological reason and excuse for a future civil war. The founders thought it so, and so treated that religion issue that ideological way by disestablishment of a state religion.
If only they had understood that religion was only
one form of totalitarian ideology and treated slavery itself, and the thinking behind IT as the same exact kind of problem.
Matthew 12:25
"Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand."
Lincoln presents the case as it was, and we can read it word for word as he eviscerates in his lawyerly way "the enemy". Slavery economics and slavery politics as a
state internal issue which is what Lincoln almost declares Stephen Douglas believes it to be and of no concern to the national polity. the
totalitarian ideology of a class as a special privileged group sinecurred and insulated as a subset to operate outside of the law accepted of the rest of the polity, is an anathema to a republican form of social contract and to the national government so constituted.
This is exactly why
a theocracy, or
a monarchy, or any
one-party or ruling class governed state internal or external is the ENEMY of the concept called the United States, then and ...
Religion is totalitarian ideology. It brooks no compromise on its "path to heaven". The belief in owning another person as property is based on an ideology of racial or cultural superiority. It bears the appalling hallmark of a totalitarian ideology akin to religion. I'm superior because of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so I can own you because the Flying Spaghetti Monster made you inferior to me.
Slavocrats thought that way and they murdered hundreds of thousands to maintain that way of thought. It was their "state religion".
Miletus12